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John Popa
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 20 March 2008
Posts: 2788
Posted: 12 October 2017 at 7:20am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Austin was bigger than Savage and Flair, I don't consider him a small guy that Vince went with.

To be fair to Benoit in WCW, he left the morning after winning the world title so he didn't have any opportunity to make any kind of statement. His title run in WWF didn't draw well though.

The danger of underdog stories in wrestling is that while people want to see some guys win the title, they often don't want to see them HAVE the title. Even Sting suffered from this, people got into him chasing Flair and Hogan, but once he'd win the big match, his star tended to fade. But Mysterio, Benoit, Guerrero, even Punk - people seemed to love the *idea* of them becoming world champion, more than they loved them being a month in-month out defending champion (and, sure, Mysterio's booking was abysmal.)
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Robbie Parry
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Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 8153
Posted: 12 October 2017 at 7:42am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

The danger of underdog stories in wrestling is that while people want to see some guys win the title, they often don't want to see them HAVE the title. 

***

An important and profound point, sir.

It can be about the booking, you're right. I remember Rey Mysterio losing a lot of TV matches during his reign. Sure, some were to giants (didn't Mark Henry or Great Khali defeat him?). Whatever a person's size, they should be booked strongly during a reign.


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Charles Valderrama
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Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3269
Posted: 12 October 2017 at 10:28am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Good points, Robbie and John. Seems to me the smaller guys tend to have better luck chasing the title rather than defending it.

Austin stands at 6′ 2″ (252 lbs) which is average by Vince's standards.

The big guys Vince loves as main event stars are typically 6' 5" and up, 300 lbs or more. (Hogan, Andre, Undertaker, The Rock, Batista)

Heck, Brock Lesnar is lucky since he's just 6′ 3″/ 265 lbs!! LOL

-C!
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Charles Valderrama
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Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3269
Posted: 12 October 2017 at 10:34am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Had the likes of Hogan and Warrior not went on hiatus in the early 90s, I am sure they'd have been the ones main-eventing the likes of SURVIVOR SERIES '92 and dominating the WWF scene during the mid-to-late 90s.

*******

They didn't just go on "hiatus" now, did they? Warrior and (later) Hogan grew difficult for Vince to handle and they had to go. (Plus, their stars were fading as became evident in WCW - pre-NWO.) Vince was then put in the position to go with HBK and Bret Hart on top. Pickings were slim after the steroid scandal.

-C!


Edited by Charles Valderrama on 12 October 2017 at 10:35am
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Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 8153
Posted: 12 October 2017 at 12:10pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Well, Hogan sort of went on hiatus in 1992, it seemed to be his choice, whatever the pressure was.

I've heard so many conflicting reports about Warrior, that I don't know what to believe. One source claimed he asked for a higher salary in late 1991, but was fired; another told me he practically walked over a dispute pertaining to a WM VII payoff.

I've heard two different stories about his 1992 disappearance. One was that Vince fired him, another was that he was going to quit anyway due to disapproval over a potential feud with Nailz. 

Some of those contradictory stories have appeared in magazines. It was a UK wrestling magazine, around the mid-90s, that claimed Warrior got the boot in 1991 due to demanding a higher salary whilst another source claimed Vince fired him for something or other.
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Robbie Parry
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Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 8153
Posted: 15 October 2017 at 8:23am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Bought this DVD recently:





As many of you may know, the XWF appeared not long after WCW was sold to the WWF. It lasted from late 2001 to 2002.

Perhaps partly because of people missing WCW, I remember many at the time stating that the XWF would become a permanent rival to the WWF (wishful thinking, I guess). It didn't happen. Sadly. People also thought the WWA, in existence from 2001 to 2003, would become a major competitor, but that didn't happen, either.

I haven't watched the main disc yet (it runs for 174 minutes and has matches such as AJ Styles VS Kid Kash). But I did choose to watch the 3 bonus features.

The first was an introduction to the XWF. The likes of Gene Okerlund prepared us for the XWF show; Ace Frehley appeared for about a nanosecond; and there was a clip of what was to come.

The second feature was a Q&A session with Hulk Hogan. There were no major revelations, but he talked about what he liked about wrestling, who his favourite opponent was, etc.

The third bonus was a match between Hulk Hogan and Curt Hennig (2001). It was quite short - and was exactly what you'd expect from either man, Hogan dominating early on, Hennig getting some moves in, Hogan making a comeback, etc, etc. Pretty much identical to the matches they had in the WWF, circa early 90s. Not saying that is a bad thing.

I shall watch the main feature at some point.

Looking back, it's a shame no major competitor arose from the ashes of WCW's demise (yes, I know WCW "lives on" but only as part of the WWE video library). TNA, or whatever they are called now, aren't competition. I do remember, and I cannot fault wishful thinking/enthusiasm, people, perhaps even myself, having high hopes for the XWF and WWA in 2001/2002. What saddened me about watching the bonus features on this DVD is that everyone seems to want to make XWF work, many (not just Hogan) express positivity about its future - and yet it didn't last long.

Technically speaking, the XWF, at least its trademarks/copyright, lasted from 2001 to 2011. But nothing happened. House shows were scheduled at various points. The aforementioned DVD was released in 2005. And as 'recently' as 2009, there were talks of a PPV. Whilst the promotion, in a sense, did exist from 2001 to 2011, it was only really active in 2001/2002.

I never really expected any promotion to become a major rival to WWE (that would take time, money and resources), but I feel saddened that, although there are many promotions in the US (and globally), WWE is really the only game in town. Would WWE have been airing shite like the Diva Search, which often dominated RAW, had it been up against a major rival? Food for thought. 
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John Popa
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 20 March 2008
Posts: 2788
Posted: 15 October 2017 at 9:10pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

I read Jim Ross's autobiography over the weekend and I have to say it's extremely disappointing.  It's very slight and anecdotal and he doesn't really go into details about the wrestling history he lived.  It also stops abruptly in 1999.  He's barely in Mid South for a chapter or two before it's the UWF and then the UWF is gone just like that.  His personal story, I hate to say, is somewhat lame.  At least it doesn't add much to the story of his career that he's trying to tell and tie together.  

Or maybe I just always assumed Ross was a bigger deal than he really was and, in the end, he was just a guy who worked in wrestling a lot, but didn't really have much to do with it.  I find that hard to believe, though.
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Robbie Parry
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Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 8153
Posted: 16 October 2017 at 2:58am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

I've been disappointed with autobiographies, too.

Bless him, but Roddy Piper's autobiography didn't go into detail the way I'd hoped. Had little to say on some parts of his career.

Bret Hart's autobiography may have been long, but he covered pretty much every major milestone.

Austin's autobiography was okay to read, but he seemed to gloss over his time in WCW. He was there four years and had some great matches as TV Champion so more would have been nice.
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John Popa
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 20 March 2008
Posts: 2788
Posted: 16 October 2017 at 9:58am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

I do think Mick Foley set the bar way too high for wrestling autobiographies - I guess I expect everyone to handle their careers with that much depth! But I'm so interested in the history of wrestling, particularly in the 70's and 80's, that I hate to see a missed opportunity to learn more about it. 
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Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 8153
Posted: 16 October 2017 at 10:38am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

I agree, John.

Piper's book glossed over so much. I expected it to be twice the length.

There were surely four years' worth of anecdotes Austin could have provided about his WCW tenure.

I'm also wondering for how much longer autobiographies will be compelling. The thing is, Kayfabe Commentaries, who are starting a streaming service, do so many shoot interviews which do get to the heart of things.

Their shoot DVDs include TIMELINE: THE HISTORY OF WWE, TIMELINE: THE HISTORY OF WCW, BACK TO THE TERRITORIES, BREAKING KAYFABE, etc. Bret Hart did one for TIMELINE: THE HISTORY OF WWE where he covered 1992 in depth; there's the YOUSHOOT series where fans get to ask questions via social media; and Kevin Nash has done at least four shoot interviews that I know of.

Books and shoot interviews are different things, but given the choice between a book that glosses over important moments, and commentaries that delve into things in detail, I know what I'd choose.

For anyone unfamiliar with Kayfabe Commentaries, here's the type of shoot interviews they do:


And you really need to buy or stream this one:

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Charles Valderrama
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Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3269
Posted: 17 October 2017 at 12:52pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

Jericho's autobiographies are right up there with Foley's... lots of details plus humor and he covers all aspects of his long career including the music career he's had. I enjoyed reading them... especially his first run in WWE.

-C!


Edited by Charles Valderrama on 17 October 2017 at 12:52pm
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Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 8153
Posted: 17 October 2017 at 4:03pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

What about Hulk Hogan's book?

I'm sure some of it was fiction. And what's this mention of being at Wembley Stadium in 1992? Hogan was NOT at SUMMERSLAM '92. 
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Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 8153
Posted: 17 October 2017 at 5:36pm | IP Logged | 13 post reply

I'm not sure if this is available outside the UK, but a new wrestling magazine, WRESTLETALK, has been published (available as a print copy or digitally):

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