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Topic: What disc did you have in last (and what did you think)? Post Reply | Post New Topic
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John Byrne

Beam Me Up, Scotty!

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 106739
Posted: 23 May 2017 at 9:02pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

…To say he is just copping an attitude…

••

Did somebody say that?

-------------------------

"he comes across to me as a pretty boy copping an attitude" were your words.

•••

Yes they were. And were you not taught that a qualifier such as "he comes across to me" means an opinion is being expressed, not an absolute truth?

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Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 9657
Posted: 23 May 2017 at 9:10pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

I'm quite happy to amend my comment to:
"...to say he comes across as copping an attitude..."



Edited by Peter Martin on 23 May 2017 at 9:10pm
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John Byrne

Beam Me Up, Scotty!

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 106739
Posted: 24 May 2017 at 6:35am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

I'm quite happy to amend my comment to:

"...to say he comes across as copping an attitude..."

••

And you still don't get it.

Bored now.

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Shaun Barry
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 08 December 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 4933
Posted: 25 May 2017 at 4:26pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply


Good news:  STAR WARS (1977)... yay!

Bad news:  The Special Edition... boo!

Good news:  The greatness of the film as a whole still outshines any of those egregious additions & revisions... I try to squint during some of the new shots, and completely skip right past that laughable, confusing and unnecessary Jabba the Hutt scene.



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Greg Kirkman
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 12 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 13584
Posted: 25 May 2017 at 11:28pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

STAR WARS (1977).

Good news: The original, theatrical version.

Bad news: I wasn't alive to see it in the theater during its original release.

Great news: Still a perfect movie. Even its flaws are charming. No amount of sequels, prequels, or Disney sausage factory-releases can ever really diminish or destroy it. It still works as an entity unto itself. The greatest and most important film ever made, all things considered? Maybe. 


At the very least, it's a ridiculously satisfying and uplifting movie experience. People have told me that seeing the film in '77 was akin to a religious experience, and I totally get that. From an editing standpoint alone, the film moves so quickly and dispenses information so casually that it would absolutely have taken multiple viewings to soak everything in. As George Lucas has often noted, the film was deliberately structured to be like a foreign film that the audience as thrown into without context. 

It's a masterpiece of world-building, and I'd argue that no other film in cinema history has so convincingly and effortlessly created such a rich universe with so much going on in every corner of the frame. Every shot conjures up stories and backstories and side-stories. There are casual references to characters and events that add a high degree of verisimilitude to the proceedings. To say nothing of the groundbreaking "used future" design aesthetic. It's definitely not a stretch to say that the film is one of the best art-directed films of all time--virtually every design (costumes, locations, vehicles, weapons, droids, etc.) is memorable and iconic. As is the sound design, and the music, and the characters, and...

It's just this magic little movie where everything that needed to happen to make it work--everything--all came together perfectly at exactly the right time. If any one element had been off, it could have been a disaster. Instead, it became a cultural phenomenon whose massive shadow we're still very much living in, nearly a half-century later.


More detailed thoughts to be posted in the STAR WARS section, when I have a chance to further reflect and write.
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Michael Penn
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 9594
Posted: 26 May 2017 at 5:00am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

[quote]Even its flaws are charming.[\quote]

Greg, when you take STAR WARS up again in its own section, I'm interested in specifying what you consider flaws and why, as well as how you find those flaws charming -- because I'm always interested in your opinions!
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Greg Kirkman
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 12 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 13584
Posted: 26 May 2017 at 9:12am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Greg, when you take STAR WARS up again in its own section, I'm interested in specifying what you consider flaws and why, as well as how you find those flaws charming -- because I'm always interested in your opinions!
+++++++

Oh, just the little things--errors, goofs, production limitations. Stuff like the Stormtrooper bumping his head aboard the Death Star, some of the clunkier bits of dialogue and acting, visual continuity issues, etc. 

In terms of story and characterization, though, it really is rock-solid. And the editing is phenomenal. SO many clever editing tricks used to make the film more exciting and/or hide the limitations of the budget and filmmaking technology. It's a masterclass in taking limited raw material and squeezing ever last bit of awesomeness out of it.

Probably my favorite editorial trick is the scene in Ben's home. As originally written and filmed, it began with Luke and Ben watching Leia's message ("Now, let's see if we can't figure out what you are, my little friend, and where you come from."), and then talking about the Clone Wars, Luke's father, and the lightsaber. In editing, the sequence was restructured to have Ben and Luke talk about the Clone Wars and Luke's father first, and then watch Leia's message, which adds a lot more urgency to the mission at hand. Originally, they receive this critical information, and then start talking about less-important stuff (Leia's mention of the Clone Wars is what prompts Luke to ask Ben, "You fought in the Clone Wars?") before coming back to the matter at hand--going to Alderaan.

It's a brilliant and seamless edit, unless you're really paying close attention to the continuity of the scene (since Luke suddenly goes back to working on Threepio, who is suddenly "awake" again after they watch the message).


The first hour of STAR WARS has this remarkable sense of forward-thrust, as each new character takes you to the next one, and it's subtle editing like in the aforementioned scene which helps move the story forward. That's why, as interesting as that material might be, the deleted scenes with Luke and Biggs on Tatooine were rightfully cut, since they would have damaged the flow and pacing. I love how the film begins with the non-human-ish droids and troopers and Vader, and then slowly builds to a point where you're deeply emotionally invested in this farmboy--the main character, who isn't even introduced until nearly 20 minutes in--and his desperate, last-chance bombing run in the Death Star trench. The movie just builds and builds until the emotional crescendo of the last few minutes, and you become totally invested in the characters and their story after the chaos, weirdness, and (in 1977) newness of the first 20 minutes. 

More thoughts (in the SW section) later! 

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John Byrne

Beam Me Up, Scotty!

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 106739
Posted: 26 May 2017 at 9:29am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Stuff like the Stormtrooper bumping his head aboard the Death Star…

••

Saw the movie fourteen times in the theater. Did not notice this. Nor on any subsequent viewings until it was pointed out.

Guess I was too involved in the STORY.

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Greg Kirkman
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 12 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 13584
Posted: 26 May 2017 at 10:49am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

One of the consequences of STAR WARS being so beloved is that every nook and cranny of every frame has been dissected and scrutinized and obsessed over, in ways that are both revealing of the film's brilliance but which also detract from the experience.

The film's greatest strength is how involving it is. You just get swept up in the story in characters, and it becomes an emotional experience, rather than an intellectual one. Which is what the best movies do!
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