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Topic: Star Wars - The Force Awakens - SPOILERS begin pg 38 Post Reply | Post New Topic
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Jozef Brandt
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Posted: 02 May 2014 at 12:26am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

But why is it when the scale is constantly skewed in one direction, do people find it offensive to point out "Hey, the scales might be imbalanced, and you had an opportunity to do something different."?
---------------------------

Because there is no such thing as a "scale" that needs to be balanced when it comes to art.  The movie makers' only duty is making a good movie. 

The number one thing that Star Wars fans want is a movie that isn't a piece of crap.

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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 02 May 2014 at 12:51am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Because there is no such thing as a "scale" that needs to be balanced when it comes to art.  The movie makers' only duty is making a good movie.  

-------

So do you think attempts to introduce more diverse and less stereotypical characters in superhero comics, for example, is a complete waste of time? Should people be content that the superhero genre remain predominantly white and male, as a product of the times they were originally created in, as long as the art is telling a good story?

What if the casting had gone in the complete opposite direction? Predominantly women of color with two white males. Would people still be saying that demographics don't matter, or would people perceive an agenda being pushed? Would no one say that it was too ethnic or too female or too "PC"? Because none of that matters, right?
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Jason Czeskleba
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Posted: 02 May 2014 at 1:25am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

 Greg Kirkman wrote:
Now, less than a decade later, Disney says it's not done...just because.

After the initial burst of post-STAR WARS retcons, the overall "mission
statement" of the series has been pretty consistent for the past 30
years: Three movies, then maybe three prequels, with the Sequel
Trilogy as more of a never-gonna-happen, flight of fancy than anything
else.


Of course, citing what Lucas has said is going down a rabbit hole, because he's never been consistent.  I remember in 1978 reading the interviews where he talked about his planned 9-part saga.  So one could argue that by making these films Disney is being true to his original intent (at least one of his "original intents" since he's had so many of them). 

Your memory is certainly better than mine, but has Lucas really been as consistent as you say with the "mission statement" over the past 30 years?  Right after Star Wars was a big hit it was "9 film saga," then after Jedi came out wasn't it "no more films" for several years?  Then in the 90s it was "six films is what I mean to do all along."  Or am I misremembering?  In a way Disney seems to be just carrying on the grand Lucas tradition.

The thing I like about this project is that there is (to the best of my knowledge) no talk of this somehow being a continuation of one story that will somehow form a giant 9-part saga when it's complete.  It appears to just be an additional story about the characters from the earlier films, which is how all the post-Star Wars films should have been done.  Trying to stretch the original film's story into five more films that were supposed to form a coherent saga resulted in a bloated, often-inconsistent mess.  I wish they'd taken a James Bond approach to the sequels... a series of one and done films that feature the same characters but otherwise stand alone.  And I'm hoping that's the intent here, that the new story will stand alone rather than try to build off and stretch the previous story even thinner.  Star Wars was modelled after Flash Gordon and Buck Rogers, and there's no reason the characters can't have dozens of adventures in the manner those guys did.

I share your grumpy, "get off my lawn" aversion to change, but I'm guessing you must not be old enough to have seen Star Wars during its first run?  I did, and the retcons in Empire (particularly Darth being Luke's father) really turned me off largely for that reason.  Change has been a part of the Star Wars "saga" from the very beginning.

I don't know why, maybe I'm getting pollyannaish in my old age, but I'm guardedly optimistic about this film.  At this point, the bar has been set pretty low for Star Wars films.  I think it will be impossible for Abrams to make a film I like less than the prequels. 


Edited by Jason Czeskleba on 02 May 2014 at 1:27am
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 02 May 2014 at 2:10am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Your memory is certainly better than mine, but has Lucas really been
as consistent as you say with the "mission statement" over the past 30
years? Right after Star Wars was a big hit it was "9 film saga," then
after Jedi came out wasn't it "no more films" for several years? Then in
the 90s it was "six films is what I mean to do all along." Or am I
misremembering? In a way Disney seems to be just carrying on the
grand Lucas tradition.

++++++++

From around 1983-2005, the broad strokes were pretty consistent,
boiling down to: I hope to go back and do the three prequels, and
maybe it would be fun to get everybody back together in a few decades
for VII-IX, too
. Lucas stated more than once that he both needed a
break from hands-on moviemaking, and also wanted technology to
catch up to his intended prequels.

Around the time that the end of the series was shoehorned into JEDI,
and the nine-film story abandoned, the plan became pretty solid, right
up through 2005. There were occasional quotes and such that hinted at
the chance of doing VII-IX "for fun", but never anything concrete.

By the time the prequels were wrapping up, Lucas began to more firmly
say that there was never any serious intention to do the Sequel Trilogy
(which isn't true, of course). After so many years of working on the
films, I think he just wanted them to max out at six, with his revised, six-
film TRAGEDY OF DARTH VADER being the core of the franchise, and
the spin-offs and ancillaries carrying the franchise from 2005-on.

+++++++++++

I share your grumpy, "get off my lawn" aversion to change, but I'm
guessing you must not be old enough to have seen Star Wars during its
first run? I did, and the retcons in Empire (particularly Darth being
Luke's father) really turned me off largely for that reason. Change has
been a part of the Star Wars "saga" from the very beginning.


+++++++++++

Correct. I was born just before JEDI came out, and so grew up with
THE STAR WARS TRILOGY incarnation of the series. It's taken years
of study and mind-training to mentally recreate where the series stood at each point in its development, and how the retcons began rippling outward almost
immediately after the first film was released.

It takes some conscious effort, but I can "turn off" everything that came
after, and examine STAR WARS as the singular entity it was originally
released as. My relationship with the sequels has changed
considerably over the last few years, as a result. Nostalgia is a
powerful thing, but the retcons and cracks in the foundation become
more and more apparent.

On the flipside, my love for the original--a virtually perfect film,
charming warts and all--grows and grows. I think THE EMPIRE
STRIKES BACK is still the slickest and best-made film in the series, but
I also think that STAR WARS is the best overall and best-conceived of
the films.

It really is astonishing just how pervasive the retcons are in regards to
fan and general public perceptions of the series, though!

Edited by Greg Kirkman on 02 May 2014 at 2:12am
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 02 May 2014 at 2:19am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Right after Star Wars was a big hit it was "9 film saga," then after Jedi came out wasn't it "no more films" for several years?

-----

Between 1978 to 1980, wasn't his stated intent to do 12 films?
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 02 May 2014 at 2:24am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Between 1978 to 1980, wasn't his stated intent to do 12 films?
++++++++++

Yep.
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Peter Martin
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Posted: 02 May 2014 at 5:30am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Lucas' intent seemed to change along with how much money the films were bringing in and therefore how much money he had to play with -- which is a practical approach.Before Star Wars' huge success permitted the expansive and open-ended ESB, the first sequel was slated to be a much smaller affair with Luke seeking the Khyber Crystal (mainly on one planet only IIRC).

With this new film, I'm excited about seeing Luke wielding a lightsaber again, not to mention Han and Chewie flying the 'Falcon.

 The worst that can happen is that it's a bad film and an embarrassment. That won't be the end of the world: the prequels have already exhausted my reserves of disappointment.

Hopefully it just might be fun though. 


Edited by Peter Martin on 02 May 2014 at 5:30am
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Peter Martin
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Posted: 02 May 2014 at 5:53am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

What if the casting had gone in the complete opposite direction? Predominantly women of color with two white males.
--------------------------------------------
Isn't this answered by 'The number one thing that Star Wars fans want is a movie that isn't a piece of crap'

My genuine reaction would be: that's curious... I wonder where they're going with that?

If it turned out to work for the story and they made a good, entertaining Star Wars film, I'd be happy. But clearly, I wouldn't be able to make that call until I'd seen the movie.

Edited to remove a couple of superflous words.


Edited by Peter Martin on 02 May 2014 at 6:07am
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Ryan Maxwell
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Posted: 02 May 2014 at 6:50am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

 Lucas stated more than once that he both needed a break from hands-on moviemaking, and also wanted technology to catch up to his intended prequels.

**********
I believe 99% of the technology needed was there in the 70's. The move away from practical sets and live actors killed the prequels almost as much as the scripts and direction did, IMO. A good matte painting will beat a ridiculous alien every time. 
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 02 May 2014 at 10:36am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

I believe 99% of the technology needed was there in the 70's. The
move away from practical sets and live actors killed the prequels
almost as much as the scripts and direction did, IMO. A good matte
painting will beat a ridiculous alien every time.
+++++++++

Of course, everyone was pretty burned-out by the time JEDI came
along. Lucas had just gone through a painful divorce, as well.

That all aside, I've occasionally wondered what would have happened if
the series hadn't stopped, and thus what the prequels would have been
like had EPISODE I been released in 1986, II in 1989, and III in 1992.

The 16-year gap changed a lot of things for STAR WARS, not just
filmmaking technology. Would moviegoers have felt oversaturated, if
the series had kept chugging along into the 90s?


The gap proved to be a double-edged sword, I think--by going away for
nearly two decades, STAR WARS became this legendary series which
hardcore fans hoped would return, someday. Having a chance to cool
off gave fans the opportunity to build expectations for future films.

By the time the prequels came along, the first generation of fans had
grown up, and was fueled by nostalgia and disposable income. This
meant that anticipation for new STAR WARS films would be insanely
high, but it also meant that the prequels could never fully satisfy that
demand, even if they were really excellent films.
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Brian Miller
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Posted: 02 May 2014 at 10:45am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

Of course, everyone was pretty burned-out by the time JEDI came
along. Lucas had just gone through a painful divorce, as well.

**************

I wonder if there were any settlement issues that made Lucas want to NOT do any kind of sequels, as well. I've not read/ heard of anything concrete, but I'm sure his ex was getting some sort of cut of things for a while after the divorce.

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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 02 May 2014 at 10:49am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

I wonder if there were any settlement issues that made Lucas want to
NOT do any kind of sequels, as well. I've not read/ heard of anything
concrete, but I'm sure his ex was getting some sort of cut of things for a
while after the divorce.
++++++++++

Yes, I forgot to mention--he also wanted to rebuild his finances before
gearing up and doing the prequels.

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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 02 May 2014 at 10:51am | IP Logged | 13 post reply


 QUOTE:
Isn't this answered by 'The number one thing that Star Wars fans want is a movie that isn't a piece of crap'

Nope. As proven by:


 QUOTE:
My genuine reaction would be: that's curious... I wonder where they're going with that?
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Peter Martin
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Posted: 02 May 2014 at 11:32am | IP Logged | 14 post reply

How does that prove anything? Curiosity over where they are going with it would not somehow contradict the number one concern, which is hoping that the movie isn't a piece of crap.

As evidenced by: "If it turned out to work for the story and they made a good, entertaining Star Wars film, I'd be happy."
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Mark Haslett
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Posted: 13 May 2014 at 1:32pm | IP Logged | 15 post reply

Turns out that reports say Adam Driver is cast as Han and Leia's son, who will be seduced by the dark side as the rest of the characters try to help him resist.

Reports also say JJ Abrams had to rewrite the script wholesale (with L. Kasdan) because the original draft was too much of a remake of Star Wars '77. Now it sounds like instead it will be a remake of Star Wars Episode III.
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James Woodcock
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Posted: 14 May 2014 at 8:01am | IP Logged | 16 post reply

Or the Legacy of the Force books when one of Han and Leia's kids does go bad and starts killing people, including Luke's wife.

Edited by James Woodcock on 14 May 2014 at 8:03am
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Rick Senger
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Posted: 05 July 2014 at 9:58am | IP Logged | 17 post reply

Cast update:  Carrie Fisher's daughter Billie will be playing the young Princess Leia in flashbacks.  Poor Harrison Ford broke his leg on the set... sounds to me like his Indiana Jones days are over (or should be!)
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Craig Robinson
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Posted: 20 July 2014 at 9:06am | IP Logged | 18 post reply

I wonder how far back those flashbacks go?  When I first heard the news of Billie playing Young Leia, I figured it would be for bridging scenes between RotJ and EpVII, but she looks younger than STAR WARS Leia, so now I wonder if those flashbacks will instead bridge RotS and SW? Or both.
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Peter Martin
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Posted: 24 July 2014 at 12:10pm | IP Logged | 19 post reply

This clip featuring a new version of the X-Wing came out a few days ago: LINK
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Jason Scott
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Posted: 24 July 2014 at 4:11pm | IP Logged | 20 post reply

Saw a pic of Mark Hamill at the Guardians of the Galaxy premiere and he had a bushy beard that made him look more like ol' Ben Kenobi than Euan McGregor did!

Edited by Jason Scott on 24 July 2014 at 4:11pm
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Patrick Mallon
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Posted: 06 November 2014 at 6:53pm | IP Logged | 21 post reply

http://www.theforce.net/v3-story/frontStar_Wars_Episode_VII_ Will_Be_Called_The_Force_Awakens_160763.asp

Yawn...
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Tim O'Neill
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Patrick, I moved your post to this thread for the announcement of the new title.

Thanks,

Tim


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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 06 November 2014 at 10:53pm | IP Logged | 23 post reply

So...the Force was asleep during all of the other movies?
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Jozef Brandt
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Posted: 06 November 2014 at 10:58pm | IP Logged | 24 post reply


Yeah, that title doesn't make any sense.  I'm making a big point not to get emotionally invested in EP7.  I followed every little update and behind the scenes video back in 1996/1997 and we all know how that turned out. 

On another note, whoever controlled those behind the scenes videos sure managed to paint a completely different picture of the Phantom Menace!
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Matt Hawes
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Posted: 07 November 2014 at 12:19am | IP Logged | 25 post reply

"The Force Awakes Anew" would make more sense.
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