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Robert Shepherd
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: March 30 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 806
Posted: July 03 2016 at 10:15pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Wow...I was reading some of the comments on the Axanar blog - and it never ceases to amaze me that fans feel they are entitled to dictate how a studio should license their IP. 

CBS and Paramount are the big bad enemies and NONE of these fans understand that copyrights were being infringed big time. They just don't give a crap.

Am I really the only one on the side of the studios in this case? Am I so old fashioned that the new standard is "take what you want, you deserve it, that no laws or rules or guidelines apply to you?" Am I the last man standing to believe a fan is just a fan and not a part owner of the franchise? That it is MY choice to devote MY time and resources as a fan and I should expect nothing in return?

Here is my view of a fan:
Fan: I love your show.
Creator: Thank you. I can't wait to show you more of the story.
Fan: Looking forward to the surprises.

Here is the real world fan:
Fan: I liked what you did, except for that last part.
Creator: I'm glad you are a fan, wait to see what comes next.
Fan: No, I've supported you since the beginning, you wouldn't be successful if it weren't for me, so do it my way or I stop supporting you....I walk.

Disgusting!




Edited by Robert Shepherd on July 03 2016 at 10:16pm
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John Byrne

Beam Me Up, Scotty!

Joined: May 11 2005
Posts: 107347
Posted: July 04 2016 at 2:35am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Am I really the only one on the side of the studios in this case?

You're asking that in this thread?

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Robert Shepherd
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Posted: July 04 2016 at 10:07am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Yeah it was just a rant and it was late and I was tired.
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Brian Skelley
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Joined: February 14 2012
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Posted: November 22 2016 at 1:23pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

In case anyone still cares about this drama (I find myself keeping it on my radar on the off chance this changes anything about copyrights) the "Anaxar" group is claiming that CBS/Paramount don't own "the idea of Star Trek".. which is... I honestly don't know how to say it beyond calling it stupidly bizarre. They've also switched up a bit and are calling their movie (which hasn't been made but allegedly the group is out of money, note: their lawyer's are pro bono) a "mockumentary". Somehow this is supposed to get them around those pesky IP laws..

Link to arstechnica article that talks about it..


Edited by Brian Skelley on November 22 2016 at 1:23pm
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Rob Ocelot
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Joined: December 07 2008
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Posted: December 01 2016 at 9:31pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

<Insert Picard Facepalm meme here>

Reading the comments section of that arstechnica article made my head hurt.  So many misinformed notions as to how copyright law and intellectual properties work.

Even Tim Russ has retooled RENEGADES into it's own thing and he actually, you know, worked on STAR TREK.

All the Axanar group are going to do is force Paramount to draw a clearer, more definitive line in the sand than they already have.  Everybody loses in this instance, including the fans. 

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Doug Jones
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Posted: January 05 2017 at 10:36pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

A Federal judge has denied motions for summary judgment for both sides in the CBS/PARAMOUNT vs. AXANAR case, moving it to trial beginning January 31st, from which a jury will determine whether or not the defense willfully infringed upon the copyright.

Most significantly, the judge blew the defense's claim of "fair use" out of the water, noting, in particular that the defense's claim that PRELUDE TO AXANAR fits Wikipedia's definition of "mockumentary".

If you click on the link, definitely read to the end of the article. The judge included at least three ST references into his summary.


Among some other fascinating bits that have come from the past year of legal revelations:

- AXANAR is broke. The 1.2 million raised from crowdfunding is gone--with not a frame of film having ever been shot.

- Producer Alec Peters actually attempted to meet with Netflix at one point, according to the court, "to become a producer of Star Trek productions."

There are a few sites which regularly cover this case, but I've found axamonitor.com to be the most thorough and by far the most well-organized. 
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: January 05 2017 at 10:42pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

I'm sure there's gonna eventually be a book or a documentary or something which covers this whole thing in detail, from start to finish. Should be quite a thing to see.
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Eric Sofer
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Joined: January 31 2014
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Posted: January 06 2017 at 5:32am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

"Most significantly, the judge blew the defense's claim of "fair use" out of the water, noting, in particular that the defense's claim that PRELUDE TO AXANAR fits Wikipedia's definition of "mockumentary"."

Wait, wait - someone in a legal case actually cited Wikipedia? Good heavens, are you SERIOUS? Isn't that a bit like getting a signed document from Santa Clause, or filmed testimony from the Wizard of Oz?

Some lawyers. Geez.
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Peter Hicks
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Posted: January 06 2017 at 9:02am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

"I'm sure there's gonna eventually be a book or a documentary or something which covers this whole thing.."
**************************************************
And Alec Peters will crowdfund it!
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Brian Skelley
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Joined: February 14 2012
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Posted: January 20 2017 at 2:58pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

For the few people that care about this.. the lawsuit is being settled. It appears that the Axanar people are agreeing to follow the new guidelines and make two 15 min 'episodes'. There will probably be more on this later as I've no doubt this will have ripples at least in terms of the people that funded the kickstarter. They were sold on a full movie, not the shortened ones.

Either way, still not sure how they thought they had a clue outside of fan entitlement.

Link
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Joe Boster
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Posted: January 20 2017 at 3:58pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

It may annoy Kickstarter people but it's not enough to get the money back. Kickstarter has a pretty low barrier to fulfillment. 
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Brian Skelley
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Posted: January 20 2017 at 5:16pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

 Joe Boster wrote:
It may annoy Kickstarter people but it's not enough to get the money back. Kickstarter has a pretty low barrier to fulfillment.


From what I've read the makers have to use "Youtube" (ad free) to distribute it. They wouldn't be able to fulfill the terms considering most perks involved the film being sent via blu-ray/DVD. I believe the most basic had them sending a download link. This wouldn't be allowed now. Time will tell, but it would seem that some people would be deserving of a refund.
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Robert Shepherd
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Posted: January 22 2017 at 10:03pm | IP Logged | 13 post reply

I'm pretty sure Kickstarter clearly states that folks funding projects do so at their own risk. No refunds after the close of the Kickstarter campaign.

Sounds like the Axanar originators got off easy. Probably for the sake of the fans....not that they'll understand that.

If the Axanar folks had only made a fan movie, then they probably would have been left alone. But once they started selling branded merchandise....well, here we are.

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Michael Roberts
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Posted: January 22 2017 at 10:40pm | IP Logged | 14 post reply

I'm pretty sure Kickstarter clearly states that folks funding projects do
so at their own risk. No refunds after the close of the Kickstarter
campaign.

------

Nope. Refunds are possible. Kickstarter's Terms of Use states that an
agreement exists between the Backers and the Project Creator.
Kickstarter itself is not responsible for anything if a project falls through,
but it expects Creators to provide refunds or find some other form of
resolution if they cannot fulfill their project.
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Robert Shepherd
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Posted: January 23 2017 at 10:49pm | IP Logged | 15 post reply

Nope. Refunds are possible. Kickstarter's Terms of Use states that an 
agreement exists between the Backers and the Project Creator. 
Kickstarter itself is not responsible for anything if a project falls through, 
but it expects Creators to provide refunds or find some other form of 
resolution if they cannot fulfill their project.

----
That reinforces a partial of what I said. The risk falls on the shoulders of the folks doing the funding and there is no guarantee of refund. It all depends on the integrity of the creator. And in this case, I thought I read somewhere (up thread I bet) that all of the crowd funded money had been spent and nothing to show for it so far?

I may be 100% wrong as I am paraphrasing rumor, and I know how dangerous that can turn out, ha.

Thanks for the correction on the Kickstarter policy. That helps.


Edited by Robert Shepherd on January 23 2017 at 10:50pm
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Joe Boster
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Posted: January 24 2017 at 1:08pm | IP Logged | 16 post reply

There have been refunds for KS projects in the past. I'm sure there will be refunds in the future. But the bar for KS fulfillment is quite grey. For example a project which sated that backers would get X Y and Z but only got X is still a successful KS. There are also no timelines to meet with KS.  You give a "best guess" and go. The biggest stick KS has is to bad said company from using KS. Now some people like to get lawyers and stuff after a few years of nothing.  
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Doug Jones
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Posted: January 26 2017 at 1:23am | IP Logged | 17 post reply

The suit is settled and the money is gone, which has led to some colorful exchanges between Peters and his backers.
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Joe Boster
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Posted: January 26 2017 at 12:57pm | IP Logged | 18 post reply

Now is the time to grab the popcorn and watch. Kickstarter backers can be more venomous than ByrneBashers(tm) 
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: April 05 2017 at 10:37am | IP Logged | 19 post reply

So, STAR TREK CONTINUES, er, continues. They're finishing up the last few episodes produced with Kickstarter funds before they shut down so as to comply with the new fanfilm guidelines.

The latest episode was just released. It's a direct sequel to "The Tholian Web", and was written by Judy Burns, who also penned the original episode.

Thanks to a lot of technobabble, we're presented with a duplicate Defiant, so as to acknowledge the canonical fate of the ship in ENTERPRISE's "In a Mirror, Darkly" while also being able to tell this story. It's trippy, but entertaining.

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Sam Karns
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Posted: April 08 2017 at 2:05pm | IP Logged | 20 post reply

I wish these fanfilms with professionals would end!
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Rob Ocelot
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: December 07 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 608
Posted: April 08 2017 at 6:06pm | IP Logged | 21 post reply

I wish these fanfilms with professionals would end!

As long as there are fans there will always be fan fiction and fan films.

It's just too bad that some fans have big ambitions with other people's pockets.


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Jonathan A. Dowdell
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Joined: July 17 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 14
Posted: April 09 2017 at 6:22am | IP Logged | 22 post reply

I appreciate the efforts of how some fans pay homage to something we love. Are they perfect? No. I have enjoyed many of these fan films and will be sorry if they don't/can't continue. 
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