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John Byrne

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Joined: 11 May 2005
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Posted: 01 March 2016 at 2:16pm | IP Logged | 1  

Danny becomes the "ultimate warrior" and earns the power of the mystical iron fist… and I really hope THAT remains the central story in Netflix's take on this character.

•••

I wonder if they'll keep the dragon?

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Brian Miller
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Posted: 01 March 2016 at 2:53pm | IP Logged | 2  

THEY'D BETTER!
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John Byrne

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Posted: 01 March 2016 at 2:58pm | IP Logged | 3  

A problem with Iron Fist's origin, of course, is that it is rather too close a parallel to KUNG FU. Whether Roy was deliberately copying the Carradine show, or if both were derived from an earlier sorce, a good chunk of the audience would be sure to note the similarities.
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Josh Goldberg
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Posted: 01 March 2016 at 6:55pm | IP Logged | 4  

"Casting a black guy as Perry White is an attempt to add diversity."
****

A better way to add diversity might be to include diverse characters.  Not just all White characters who happen to be played by actors who were chosen from some mix-and-match, random grab-bag process.

When someone was looking to add diversity to BATMAN '89, after the script was written for an all-White cast, they decided to just plug Billy Dee Williams into the Harvey Dent role

When they were looking to add diversity to BATMAN BEGINS '05, before the script was written (a much better time to start considering theses things), they looked at the source material and decided to bring an existing Black character into the Batman movies for the first time.

No race-swapping necessary. No need to create new characters.  So many diverse characters already exist in the source material.  Bring them into the movies and TV shows, just like Lucius Fox.
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 01 March 2016 at 9:04pm | IP Logged | 5  

As I noted at the time, the comics already had an established character
who was the black publisher of the Daily Planet, Franklin Stern.
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Josh Goldberg
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Posted: 01 March 2016 at 9:21pm | IP Logged | 6  

See?  The should have put that guy in the movie.  Total Lucius Fox move.


Edited by Josh Goldberg on 01 March 2016 at 9:21pm
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John Byrne

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Posted: 01 March 2016 at 9:23pm | IP Logged | 7  

But Danny Rand being a white guy fully immersed in a pseudo-Asian culture is exactly the issue. That people don't get why Asian-Americans would have an issue with that is part of the problem.

•••

Embracing and celebrating another culture is "part of the problem"? I thought that was what we were SUPPOSED to do?

Shall we now retroactively condemn DANCES WITH WOLVES? And A MAN CALLED HORSE? And LOST HORIZON? And all the other movies, books, TV shows and, yes, comic books about people embracing other cultures? We should, instead, build walls between the cultures, so only those who are members are allowed in?

Hey, hardly sounds divisive at all!

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Brian Miller
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Posted: 01 March 2016 at 9:28pm | IP Logged | 8  

Why, exactly, DO Asians have a problem with a white guy immersing himself in a pseudo-Asian culture?
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Tim O'Neill
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Posted: 01 March 2016 at 9:33pm | IP Logged | 9  

Wallace: "Has there been any talk of Marvel doing something with Shang-Chi?"

••

JB: "The half-Asian son of a character Marvel does not own?

That could be interesting...!!"


********

My first thought when I heard that Iron Fist would not be cast with an Asian American actor was that they were distinguishing the character from Shang-Chi.

Marvel is certainly not opposed to casting against the source material. They may have plans to do a Shang-Chi movie, and even though the characters have different origin stories, maybe Marvel feels civilians wouldn't be able to distinguish between two heroes who deal in martial arts, so they will make them as different as possible. Having different cultural backgrounds would help create two distinct characters. And of course they will inevitably battle each other - as they did in the comic books!




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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 01 March 2016 at 10:13pm | IP Logged | 10  


 QUOTE:
Embracing and celebrating another culture is "part of the
problem"? I thought that was what we were SUPPOSED to do?


Yes. This is what we should do.


 QUOTE:
Shall we now retroactively condemn DANCES WITH
WOLVES?


DANCES WITH WOLVES is one of the movies alluded to on the
previous page.


 QUOTE:
We should, instead, build walls between the cultures, so only
those who are members are allowed in?


No one is suggesting that.

What they are suggesting is that telling the story of a white guy
embracing a white person's idea of what Asian culture is is not
celebrating another culture, it's co-opting and objectifying Asian culture
to tell the story of a white guy.
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 01 March 2016 at 10:16pm | IP Logged | 11  

Why, exactly, DO Asians have a problem with a white guy immersing
himself in a pseudo-Asian culture?

----

If you mean Asians from Asia, I can only assume they don't care. If you
mean Asian-Americans, see previous pages.
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Taavi Suhonen
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Posted: 02 March 2016 at 5:42am | IP Logged | 12  

 John Byrne wrote:
The half-Asian son of a character Marvel does not own? That could be interesting...!!


Some time ago Marvel gave their Fu Manchu a different name: Zheng Zu.

I suspect that if there ever will be live action Shang-Chi, they'll just make his father the Mandarin. After all, they did confirm there is a real Mandarin in the MCU after the fan backlash over Iron Man 3.
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Wallace Sellars
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Posted: 02 March 2016 at 7:29am | IP Logged | 13  

It looks as if a Black actor will play the part of Josie in the RIVERDALE
television series.

I guess her bandmate Valerie was unavailable.
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John Byrne

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Joined: 11 May 2005
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Posted: 02 March 2016 at 8:12am | IP Logged | 14  

My first thought when I heard that Iron Fist would not be cast with an Asian American actor was that they were distinguishing the character from Shang-Chi.

••

First thought, Tim? Not that the character has been Caucasian from Day One?

Anyway, I think you give Hollywood too much credit for thinking!

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Tim O'Neill
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Posted: 02 March 2016 at 9:07am | IP Logged | 15  



Yes, I likely am overthinking this!  It is sad that as I followed this story, I assumed that Marvel would buckle to the pressure and change the character.  I didn't think they would want to invite controversy that was already brewing - especially from a studio that changes Nick Fury even without a public movement.  My assumption that they only were faithful to Danny Rand's origin to differentiate him from Shang-Chi was because I continued to doubt their fidelty to the source material and felt there must be another reason for this. 






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Marc Foxx
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Posted: 02 March 2016 at 10:36am | IP Logged | 16  

Hey, at least they didn't cast Hal Sparks...(a couple of
years ago I heard an interview with him where he had
said that he was a huge fan of the character and wanted
the role).
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Rick Whiting
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Joined: 22 April 2004
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Posted: 02 March 2016 at 3:46pm | IP Logged | 17  

IMO, people should be more pissed off about Disney turning Big Hero 6 (an all Japanese team) into an interracial team (and they even made the lead character, Hiro, half white) in the animated movie adaption. IMO, that was wrong. Disney had the opportunity to put out an American film with an all Japanese cast of characters, but they decided to go the typical cliche Hollywood direction and tone down the Japanese aspects of the characters.
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 02 March 2016 at 4:27pm | IP Logged | 18  

IMO, people should be more pissed off about Disney turning Big Hero 6

-----

There were complaints about Big Hero 6 being whitewashed. However,
the actual comic book team it was based on was pretty bad (as if the
writers' only exposure to Japan was ninjas and stock anime
characters), and Hiro, while a science nerd, wasn't a stereotypical
"Asian math nerd™", so it balanced out.
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Rick Whiting
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Joined: 22 April 2004
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Posted: 02 March 2016 at 10:29pm | IP Logged | 19  

There were complaints about Big Hero 6 being whitewashed. However,
the actual comic book team it was based on was pretty bad (as if the
writers' only exposure to Japan was ninjas and stock anime
characters), and Hiro, while a science nerd, wasn't a stereotypical
"Asian math nerd™", so it balanced out.

______________________

I disagree with you about the comic book version of BH6 being pretty bad. Sure, the series was influenced by anime and manga, but the characters were far more "ninjas and stock anime characters".
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John Byrne

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Joined: 11 May 2005
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Posted: 03 March 2016 at 10:27am | IP Logged | 20  

Y'know, I've been looking around, and I can't find much in the way of a "backlash." Is there really a substantial groundswell I'm missing?
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Thom Price
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Joined: 29 April 2004
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Posted: 03 March 2016 at 11:03am | IP Logged | 21  

 I can't find much in the way of a "backlash."

***

Online "outrage" often boils down to a handful of people on Twitter that gets blown out of proportion.
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 03 March 2016 at 2:02pm | IP Logged | 22  

Y'know, I've been looking around, and I can't find much in the way of a
"backlash." Is there really a substantial groundswell I'm missing?

-----

Nope. Why do you think Hollywood keeps whitewashing Asian roles?
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David Allen Perrin
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Posted: 04 March 2016 at 2:20pm | IP Logged | 23  

I've just read that 'Shang-Chi' will be a part of the new Iron Fist show!

I was excited for this before.  I'm WAY past excited now!


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Michael Casselman
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Posted: 04 March 2016 at 2:44pm | IP Logged | 24  

Related (in a way) http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/nina-simones-family-blasts-zoe -saldana-casting-in-biopic/
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Tim O'Neill
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Posted: 04 March 2016 at 5:48pm | IP Logged | 25  



"I've just read that 'Shang-Chi' will be a part of the new Iron Fist show!"

****

Would you please post a link for this info?

It's difficult to discern rumor from fact when there is nothing to support a statement like this.

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