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Anthony J Lombardi
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Joined: 12 January 2005
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Posted: 17 March 2017 at 10:02pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Two episodes in and my biggest complaint is that it is dragging on. The pacing is terrible. The fighting so far has been unimpressive. There a flashes of coolness but it fizzles out pretty quick. The Iron Fist effect is nicely done. 
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Taavi Suhonen
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Posted: 18 March 2017 at 12:33am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

My friends and I watched all of Iron Fist yesterday, so here are some thoughts that I'll try to keep relatively spoiler free. While it clearly is the weakest of the Marvel Netflix shows and the critics have raised fair points, it's nowhere near the level its low Rotten Tomatoes numbers would suggest. Mostly we were having a good time watching it. Ward Meachum probably has the most compelling character arc of the show and Madame Gao is an absolute delight. The opening credits look very cool. Ultimately I think it suffers from being forced to be 13 episodes long (an issue all the Netflix shows have had) and simply not having the resources to implement some of the more fantastic elements properly.
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Jaren Cole
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Posted: 18 March 2017 at 7:14am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

I've been thinking, with the faux outrage by critics andinternet journalist at Iron Fist/Danny Rand. How would things be if anotherwell known story about kid named Daniel LaRusso (The Karate Kid) who learned an Asian martialart, would play with today's critics? Just think about it for a moment. There would be cries of "White Savior", token Asian master/sidekick and cultural appropriation. I have no doubt the film would be ripped to pieces if it was released today.

That's the way outrage culture works now. The virtue signaling, SJW, PC Police get offended for other people and shotgun their "outrage" across the internet so everyone can see it. Like the "outrage" that was generated last month over Karlie Kloss' photoshoot in Vogue. 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/people/2017/02/15/karlie- kloss-apologizes-vogue-geisha-photoshoot/97952238/

Where non-Japanese people got offended and screamed "yellowface" and "appropriation" but  people in Japan liked the shoot because it made their culture look beautiful. They like the exposure to their culture and history.

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Brian O'Neill
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Posted: 18 March 2017 at 12:22pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Just because white people of prior centuries were racist assholes, doesn't mean PC white people of the 21st century have to go to such lengths to be offended on behalf of every minority who 'should' be offended.
White SJWs don't 'appropriate culture'.They appropriate 'offense'.
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 18 March 2017 at 2:11pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply


 QUOTE:
Where non-Japanese people got offended and screamed
"yellowface" and "appropriation" but people in Japan liked the shoot
because it made their culture look beautiful. They like the exposure to
their culture and history.


1) These sorts of issues are more about American minorities, who see
white folk as taking bits of their background without context while
continuing to treat them like second class citizens. People in Japan
could give a fuck about that.
2) You could probably find people in Japan who do have issues with
this


 QUOTE:
Just because white people of prior centuries were racist
assholes, doesn't mean PC white people of the 21st century have to go
to such lengths to be offended on behalf of every minority who 'should'
be offended. White SJWs don't 'appropriate culture'.They appropriate
'offense'.


I *love* how in these discussions, not just this particular one, it's always
about the white anti-PC crowd vs the white SJWs. Contrary to what
people might believe, the Internet did not invent these issues. Minority
folk have both observed them independently and discussed them
among themselves for decades. What the internet has done is give
them a common language to discuss these issues and make people
realize that internalizing it and staying quiet about it doesn't change a
thing.

Now I get that many white allies have jumped on to these causes, and
they are a visible target to critics of these causes. And I also
understand that the "SJWs" can take their outrage to ridiculous
extremes. But more often than not, I see them used as strawmen to
silence minority perspectives on racial issues that make white
Americans uncomfortable. But hey, let's make it all about the White
SJWs. Fuck actual minority voices, right?
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Brandon Scott Berthelot
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Posted: 18 March 2017 at 2:24pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Thumbs up Michael.
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Emery Calame
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Joined: 16 April 2004
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Posted: 19 March 2017 at 3:33am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

2nd episode

If your psychiatrist doesn't believe in super-heroes and weird things he's an idiot not a realist. Aliens attacked new York. The Hulk got made and broke a city in the balkans. A billionaire flies around in a suit of Armor in downtown Manhattan. The government is warning people that any one could be an Inhuman and they are very dangerous but also probably just people so leave them alone and let S.H.I.E.L.D. know where they are. Also, S.H.I.E.L.D. was declared rogue and reformed. But whatever. The government operates a controversial confinement facility for bad people with super powers and wants info on strange stuff like that or aliens or other dimensions. There is a controversial international treaty regulating super-powered people and generally weirdos. A guy claiming to be a norse God hangs around with the billionaire flying armor guy. There's a squeaky voice Spider-Guy flipping around and swinging or ropes or something. He might be a thig, a newspaper guy hates him. There's a bullet proof guy in Harlem that the police arrested and then shipped off to Georgia for a prison break. Lot's of people were somehow held hostage by some British guy, some of them committed suicide or murder and aren't sure why, and everyone's favorite talk show host interviewed him on the air..

You can't be a freaky thing like all those other freaky things going on all around in this city Danny Rand. You must be crazy. You need my help to not think you can whip nine kinds of ass which you've been accused of doing and you can speak Mandarin but what does that prove? Durrrrrr. take these pills. I'm not going to call this in to the feds even though it could result in something awful happening here at the hospital and I have billionaires shadily sneaking around in here and I think you might be being kept from your legacy. 
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Flavio Sapha
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Posted: 19 March 2017 at 6:46am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

5 eps in. Pretty good!
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 19 March 2017 at 8:01am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

I'm three episodes in and enjoying it, but the critics are right about the
pacing and story focus. The biggest threat to Danny so far has been
security guards.
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Jaren Cole
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Posted: 19 March 2017 at 9:44am | IP Logged | 10 post reply


 QUOTE:

1) These sorts of issues are more about American minorities, who see 
white folk as taking bits of their background without context while 
continuing to treat them like second class citizens. People in Japan 
could give a fuck about that.
2) You could probably find people in Japan who do have issues with 
this


I agree on both points. I just wanted to highlight that for both Iron Fist and the Karlie Kloss photo shoot, the spark that ignited the offended parties didn't come from the Chinese and Japanese communities, respectively. 
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Joseph Gauthier
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Posted: 19 March 2017 at 11:17am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

Having read a number of them, I took the negative reviews with a large helping of salt.  Given the common thread of objection to white savior and cultural appropriation themes in the material, I assumed that the structural critiques were offered as a subconscious justification of a prejudicial rejection of the whole, based upon an aspect the reviewer found objectionable.  Otherwise, I posited, one would surely come across at least one review offering the same structural critiques without a statement of objection to the aforementioned themes.

Several episodes in, I can now say the structural critiques are well-founded.  In my opinion, Iron Fist is without question, the weakest of the Netflix Marvel offerings- which is unfortunate, because it's the one I wanted to like the most.  I've stayed with it, however, and intend to finish watching for a number of reasons: I find both Danny and Coleen to be likeable and given to an appealing chemistry, but also because of my enjoyment of the source material as well as my enjoyment of previous Netflix offerings.

With that said, I agree with the complaints about the pace of the show, and feel the story would have been better served had it used as its starting point the news conference in episode four, announcing Danny's return.
I'm disappointed that the Iron Fist is presented as the defender of K'un-Lun against the Hand, and would have instead preferred to see the H'ylthri as the principle force of opposition.
I find the Ward Meachum character unconvincing and baffoonishly two-dimensional.
I'm confused by Madame Gao's stewardship of the Hand, given that her organization was presented as distinct from the Hand in Daredevil, and I'm disappointed in the amount of sunlight cast upon both Gao and the Hand; a beast is always more terrifying when you only see its tentacles.  Instead, Iron Fist undoes the good work done in Daredevil by unwrapping the mystery and presenting Gao and the Hand as little more than a generic criminal syndicate, and therefore, I fear that some of the mistakes made here are bound to leak out into the other shows.
And last, despite the appealing chemistry between Danny and Coleen, I'm a bit disappointed that a romantic element is introduced to the relationship- platonic friendship between male and female characters is a powerful, yet sadly underutilized relationship on television.  Was romance present in the relationship in the comics?  I was a fan of Power Man and Iron Fist, but never read much of Iron Fist or his adventures in Marvel Premiere, and only knew of Danny's relationship with Misty Knight.

Overall, however, the show does offer enough to keep me watching; and I say this as someone who will not waste his time with another DCU movie, who felt no need to watch a second episode of Arrow, was board senseless after two episodes of Agents of SHIELD, and who passed on Agent Carter.  I recommend the show, but I suggest going in with tempered expectations.
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Emery Calame
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Posted: 19 March 2017 at 4:34pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Opening theme is less memorable than prior marvel netflix shows. Kind of sounds like X-files and Tron: Legacy soundtrack had a baby.

Not sure about the black ink motion trails imagery in the opening. Makes me think of Venom or some dark-force user kind of thing.
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Emery Calame
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Posted: 19 March 2017 at 6:11pm | IP Logged | 13 post reply

Plenty of name dropping of Davos so far. 

Mr Meachum Sr. is a twisted trip. 

Is it possible that Madame Gau has nothing to do with the Hand and is just using their name to stir up trouble in the city and sell dope? This hand is not much like the one seen in Daredevil. Or maybe they have five branches like a hand has five fingers and this is the middle hand instead of the index hand that got thrashed in Daredevil season II? 
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Flavio Sapha
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Posted: 19 March 2017 at 7:18pm | IP Logged | 14 post reply

I only wish they had used the costume! It's one of the greatest costumes of all time! :0(
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Flavio Sapha
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Posted: 19 March 2017 at 7:20pm | IP Logged | 15 post reply

I think the JB Namor, CEO of Oracle, Inc., would fit well into this New York Netflix Marvel Universe!
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David Miller
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Posted: 19 March 2017 at 9:16pm | IP Logged | 16 post reply

Iron Fist felt more like a Dark Shadows approach to a Dirty Sexy Money style corporate soap opera, with a ninja showing up instead of a vampire. I don't know if it was intentional or not, but on that level I enjoyed it.

As with all the other Marvel Netflix shows except Jessica Jones, I would not have kept watching on a  weekly schedule. It fared better than Luke Cage, which I didn't even finish.

Finn Jones the same problem Tom Cruise does in the Mission: Impossible movies -- it's hard to have him convincingly beat anyone but wimps and old people in a fight. When he was fighting that dude in the truck, I was embarrassed for him; it was like, come on man, you're a superhero.

Overall, the villains were fun, though. All three Meachams kept me guessing until the end. The Hand seeding ninjas in various professions in different walks of life reminded me of Frank MIller's ninja bankers in Elektra: Assassin (which really out to be the next Netflix show after Punisher; the climate is right.)

The effect they use to signal flashbacks was not special. I literally could do better on my laptop. Boooo.

Was Iron Fist ever this associated with the Hand in the comics? Admittedly there's a three decade gap in my reading but it feels like they're building his house on borrowed sand.
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Robert Shepherd
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Posted: 20 March 2017 at 3:31am | IP Logged | 17 post reply

Finished off the season in a couple nights. It was.....hmmm......just ok.

I won't toss out any spoilers (I hope) but I gotta say, I am so tired of every hero having such deep personal angst. I kept waiting for Danny to stand proud and be a hero...to grow some balls. Never really happened.

I am really bored of ninjas. Why does it always have to be ninjas? Where are the super villains? Who is Iron Fist's arch enemy? 

And sorry to say, Finn Jones does not have the physique to play this role. He should have worked out more to prep for this show.

I did like Harold Meachum though. Creepy guy.
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Petter Myhr Ness
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Posted: 20 March 2017 at 5:18am | IP Logged | 18 post reply

Halfway through, and currently the show feels like a misfire. Slow pacing. Too much time spent in board rooms. Underwhelming fight scenes. Not really deserving of a true fighter like Iron Fist, is it?


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Andrew Bitner
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Posted: 20 March 2017 at 6:43am | IP Logged | 19 post reply

Emery, you make some good points--I thought about that myself. If there was an alien invasion and we KNOW the Avengers exist, why the kneejerk assumption Danny is crazy?

Probably a couple of things. He's claiming to have come back 15 years after everyone "knows" he died. His story has some plausible holes in it (a monastery that nobody can locate?). And the doctor himself says that there's been a huge upsurge in patients claiming to have special powers. Lots of them are probably crazy.

And it's also human nature. Lots of people in the MCU are probably doing their best to deny all this really is happening because it is frankly scary as hell. That world no longer makes sense to the people who live there, and that is terrifying.

But still... something to consider.

My two cents SPOILER ALERT ON!!!
- Liked it more than I thought I might based on reviews.
- Finn Jones seems to have tried pretty hard to do the martial arts work himself, and there's a very different style at work here. Less brute force, for one thing.
- Ward Meachum definitely had the best arc. He's a dirtbag in many ways but you can feel for him. And he did redeem himself a good bit.
- Harold... oh my God, can we dispense with that whole villain trope? It had to be the absolute low point in the show's overall plot. I like David Wenham but his performance was the only thing that make Harold work. Thank God he is irretrievably gone.
- Davos is now Danny's enemy (Steel Serpent?). Bokuto will return. And Madame Gao (how great was she?) will keep messing with Danny's head. The truth is often a worse weapon than a lie...
- Liked Colleen Wing in this and glad to see Claire Temple linking to the last Defender. She's their Coulson.
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David Allen Perrin
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Posted: 20 March 2017 at 8:15am | IP Logged | 20 post reply

Iron Fist was pretty weak to me. Clearly the least intriguing piece of the Marvel Netflix stable. 

Spoilery talk below.....

Fights improved as episodes went on. But the choreography was always obvious and clumsy. 

Most of the acting was ok. But Finn Jones played Danny as sometimes a bit too whiny. Jessica Henwick was stronger as Coleen Wing.  

The flashbacks of the Rand family plane crash were horribly executed and amateurish. Never once did I get the sense that they were anything other than bad actors on a set pretending to be in distress. Awful stuff. And why on earth did the roof of the plane come off!? If the plane went down because the pilots were drugged, why did that make the plane come apart?! Had The Hand placed a bomb on the plane THEN I'd get it. But the explanation given doesn't match the visuals. It was dumb.

The Meachums played too large a role. Their whole story line could have wrapped up int he first half of the season.  To go through the entire season only to have evil businessman zombie Harold Meachum be 'the big bad' was disappointing.  

The guy they cast as Davos was a joke! This guy looked like he should be serving coffee at Starbucks. He was too slight and short to feel like The Steel Serpent. And if Davos is done correctly, HE should be the big bad in the final fight. I know they are setting something up for later...but this season needed something special now! 

For a guy as bad ass as Iron Fist is supposed to be, he spent all season fighting fairly ordinary foes. The threats should have ramped UP as episodes went on. Zombie Harold Meachum is NOT what I was hoping for. 

And what happened to The Hand?! They were cool and spooky on Daredevil. In this they were weak ass ninja dudes with nothing threatening about them. 

How on Earth do you cast Hoon Lee (Job from the wonderfully violent Banshee) and waste him as some all too brief "random ghost monk" appearance?  He is too good to use in such a manner.  

Scott Buck was the showrunner for Iron Fist and he gave us the worst seasons of Dexter. Going forward I'd prefer someone else at the helm. 

Iron Fist rating: 2.5 out of 4 Glowing Fists.


Edited by David Allen Perrin on 20 March 2017 at 8:17am
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David Allen Perrin
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Posted: 20 March 2017 at 8:32am | IP Logged | 21 post reply

'Into The Badlands' is EVERYTHING Iron Fist should be.  
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vishard chandool
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Posted: 20 March 2017 at 8:54am | IP Logged | 22 post reply

4 episodes in and its not at all as bad as the critics make it out to be.

Apart from the 1st season of Daredevil I have found the Netflix Marvel series to be pretty dull. I have not made it through any of them except DD season 1. 

That being said, Iron Fist is holding my interest so far. My biggest peeve is that Finn Jones does not move like a a martial artist at all, certainly not like a living weapon.

I am also really fed up with the same plane crash flashback over and over. Time to see more of K'un L'un. They could take a page from the old Kung Fu TV series where they did a convincing impression of a Shaolin monastery with just  some dark rooms and lots of candles. 

I will see how long I last with this one. 
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James Woodcock
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Posted: 20 March 2017 at 4:30pm | IP Logged | 23 post reply

I'm five episodes in.

Can we say deconstruction? 13 episodes for an origin. Jessic Jones was well and truly established in the middle of the story, which allowed them to intro Luke Cage so his origin was told in his series in a done in one episode.

This? Just get him to the position please.
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 20 March 2017 at 5:20pm | IP Logged | 24 post reply

Can we say deconstruction? 13 episodes for an origin

-----

Decompressed, maybe?
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Emery Calame
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Posted: 20 March 2017 at 9:43pm | IP Logged | 25 post reply

Decongestant?   

I'm on the 2nd to last episode now. WEIRD show. Almost feels like the writers had no idea where they were going at times.
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