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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 06 October 2016 at 1:47pm | IP Logged | 1  

Joe Zhang - these are pure speculation, but...

Why would saving Barry's mom lead to Caitlin becoming an ophthalmologist? My only guess is that Barry's mom was somehow involved with STAR Labs, or with teaching, or maybe even with ophthalmology. Caitlin took a class and in the original timeline, it didn't do much. Barry's mom might have filled her with a passion for eyes. (Talk about a love light in your eyes... :)

The breakup of the West family happened separately from Barry becoming an orphan. Why would Wally West have grown up in Central City?  Joe West had a very strong and paternal relationship with Barry. That obviously changed everything about his life (especially the alcoholism.) Iris and Wally's mom may have found out that Joe was dragging into depression and came back (with Wally) to try to help him - a help he definitely did not need being a foster father to Barry.

Why would [Wally] even have received the Speed Force? Why not? It happened to Barry. Pretty similar conditions for their creation. Jay/Thawne never mentioned the Speed Force - so either he was faster than Barry without it, or the Speed Force isn't truly intelligent and Barry suffered a schizophrenic break, thinking it was talking to him.
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Kevin Brown
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Posted: 06 October 2016 at 7:35pm | IP Logged | 2  

One other thing to remember about the 1st episode:  We only saw a few days of a timeline that Barry had been living in for 3+ months, but, as far as everyone else was concerned, it had been that way "forever".  We may never what caused people to "zig" instead of "zag".  It doesn't matter at this point though...
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Dave Kopperman
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Posted: 07 October 2016 at 2:31pm | IP Logged | 3  

I haven't read the original Flashpoint comics, but I liked the explanation of the seemingly non-linear temporal changes (ie, Caitlin the pediatric ophthalmologist) they offered in the animated version from a couple of years ago: when Barry broke the time barrier, there were time shockwaves similar to a sonic boom.

Animated version was pretty entertaining, but much grimmer and gorier than it needed to be.
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 07 October 2016 at 3:51pm | IP Logged | 4  

I haven't read the original Flashpoint comics, but I liked the explanation
of the seemingly non-linear temporal changes (ie, Caitlin the pediatric
ophthalmologist)

---

How is Caitlin a non-linear change? She became a doctor after Barry's
mother's death. Don't forget that Henry Allen is a doctor, who ended up
being incarcerated for several years. It wouldn't be that difficult to draw
a line between Henry's presence and any other doctors who may have
ended up influencing Caitlin. Not to mention that Thawne being
defeated in the past meant that Wells wasn't putting pieces in place to
create the Flash.
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Brian Miller
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Posted: 07 October 2016 at 7:42pm | IP Logged | 5  

Watching ARROW right now. Apparently, the timeline didn't change anything on this show. How does it change the timeline for one group of people and not the other?
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 07 October 2016 at 10:34pm | IP Logged | 6  

The effect that the timeline change had on ARROW will be seen in
upcoming episodes.
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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 08 October 2016 at 6:40am | IP Logged | 7  

Flashpoint may not have had any effect on any other CW shows. I personally think it's what is going to get National City and Supergirl and Superman into the CW-DCU.

SPOILERS

Still, Barry did clean up that mess... and the end of that episode showing that Joe got upset when Iris was mentioned doesn't mean she's been out of touch for years. It might be months, which would fall into the elapsed time since Barry started the whole mess. I think it'll be interesting to see how it develops from there.

And its effects may be what initiates the four part crossover between the shows. After all, who knows better about screwing with time than Rip Hunter?
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Emery Calame
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Posted: 10 October 2016 at 11:30pm | IP Logged | 8  

Parachute arrow. 
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Rob Ocelot
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Posted: 18 October 2016 at 2:29am | IP Logged | 9  

Wally states he got his powers by being struck by lightning.  No accelerator accident.

If that isn't a slow pitch setup for a Crisis-like event that turns future Barry into the lightning bolt that gives the majority of CW-verse speedsters their powers then I'll be a monkey's uncle.  The future 'Crisis' is refereced in Wells/Thawne's vault in the first season.

At least Barry has stopped trying to hamfistedly fix the timeline.  I really didn't watch to watch a new season of SLIDERS (only half-joking here). Thanks, JSA-Jay.  You're the best look-a-like Dad ever! :-)
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Andrew W. Farago
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Posted: 03 November 2016 at 4:00pm | IP Logged | 10  

Finally caught up! 

Alchemy's giving powers to everyone who had them in the Flashpoint universe but doesn't have them in the...New Universe.  I think that's where Wally's going to get his speed.
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Emery Calame
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Posted: 03 November 2016 at 7:05pm | IP Logged | 11  

I think he CAN fix the timeline if he goes back a few hours (as he already has when Central got Tsunami'd or when Vandal Savage killed everyone) but going too far back (his mom's murder) gives him much bigger changes in his new equivalent to the present.

I still haven't quite figured out his happy universe yet(if he saved his mom then did he go 18 + years into the future to hang out with them as an adult and if he did then what happened to the happy Barry natural to that timeline?) but it did show that he did a lot to improve life for the Wests by being their foster son. Without him to care for they unraveled into a train-wreck. I thought it was kind of a nice message that you can easily forget how precious you are/were to those who cared for you. They didn't need a super hero, they needed their foster son and brother who they never got a chance to connect with. They were left poorer for not having him to take care of.


Edited by Emery Calame on 03 November 2016 at 7:49pm
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Andrew W. Farago
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Posted: 04 November 2016 at 12:29pm | IP Logged | 12  

I was skeptical about the whole series when I first heard about it, since it was built on the premise that Reverse Flash killed Barry's mom and framed his dad, since I'd always enjoyed the fact that every version of the Flash was a good guy just because it was the right thing to do, not because of some revenge-laden backstory. 

But the cast, the writing, the effects, the (could still be a little brighter red) costumes...everything won me over. Iris and Barry growing up in the same house is still a little bit tricky for me, if they're destined to be a couple, but I love the father-son dynamic between Joe and Barry.

And I think Flash and Supergirl may finally be starting to rub off on DC's movie division, since Wonder Woman looks a lot more fun than any of its predecessors. Fingers crossed.
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Brian O'Neill
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Posted: 11 November 2016 at 11:43am | IP Logged | 13  

Interesting episode this past week...a "thaw" in 2 characters's subplot, and a..."not thaw" in another...
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Sergio Saavedra
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Posted: 17 November 2016 at 3:42am | IP Logged | 14  

Good episode. I have the feeling that something's lacking though.
Maybe it's Cisco, who is a sadder person in this reality. Maybe it's the general feeling that this is not the "real" reality. I don't know.
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Gregory Harshman
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Posted: 17 November 2016 at 7:16am | IP Logged | 15  

Good episode, but I wish they would stop introducing new speedsters...that's four in this season alone.
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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 17 November 2016 at 8:25am | IP Logged | 16  

ITEM: Flashpoint seems to be about to be undone, or redone again. Maybe it's time for us to meet the Phantom Stranger?

ITEM: Why is everyone convinced that even if Caitlin gets powers that she's going to be a villain? Dr. Alchemy doesn't seem to be the one behind HER powers.

ITEM: Wally wanting powers has gone beyond intriguing to whiny and distracting. I'm hoping they'll get past this, one way or another. Crap, his father is a hero, and has no powers save for maybe really good aim...
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Andrew Bitner
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Posted: 17 November 2016 at 10:12am | IP Logged | 17  

I'm not sure Flashpoint will be redone/undone. Seems as though Barry (and the creative team) is finished with time travel for now. I figure he'll deal with the ramifications of Flashpoint rather than try to fix it yet again.

Caitlin *was* fighting Cisco (who appears to be full-on Vibe in the future), so it's possible that her change is not solely driven by her new powers. Is it inevitable? No, but it also seems Alchemy is choosing people who might well abuse the powers they used to have.

I'm pretty sure Wally will be Kid Flash but given his "flash" of temper toward Iris, he might not be the hero he's aiming to become. Could be he'll end up a less-than-heroic speedster too.
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Emery Calame
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Posted: 17 November 2016 at 4:01pm | IP Logged | 18  

Now Flash has to fight Zippy Space Ultron.
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Aaron Most
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Posted: 17 November 2016 at 5:20pm | IP Logged | 19  

What if its Cisco who is bad in the vibe vision?
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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 18 November 2016 at 7:55am | IP Logged | 20  

KIller Frost was fighting Cisco... that doesn't make either of them villains. Hell, Marvel made a great theme in their early comics using that!

I'm going to pretend that there's a misunderstanding and everyone is getting along fine until I have reason to think different. Not as if it'll make a lick of difference in reality.
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Andrew Bitner
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Posted: 18 November 2016 at 8:06am | IP Logged | 21  

Going by the preview for next week, it does look like Caitlin is NOT a kinder, gentler Killer Frost.
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Kevin Brown
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Posted: 18 November 2016 at 9:30am | IP Logged | 22  

 Andrew Bitner wrote:
Going by the preview for next week, it does look like Caitlin is NOT a kinder, gentler Killer Frost.

Editing can make things seem different than they really are....

I think, in the end, she'll be fine.  She's lashing out thinking what Barry did screwed up her life.  I really do not see them making her evil, she's just mad/upset with her lot in life.

I also think that what Cisco vibed on was NOT the two of them fighting, but rather a training exercise.


Edited by Kevin Brown on 23 November 2016 at 7:15am
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Kevin Brown
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Posted: 23 November 2016 at 7:15am | IP Logged | 23  

I said this elsewhere concerning episode 7:

I still don't think Caitlin is going to change to evil. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, that vision that Cisco vibed on was misinterpreted and they were not battling it out.

I think Savitar is the evil part of the speed force personified. (Think of the speed force as equal parts "chaos and order".) Hence the reason only Barry can see him and that Savitar can run at the speeds he can.

IF Savitar is basically pure speed force, he (it?) can tap into the timeline that Barry changed when he accessed the speed force. This is how he knows about the alternate metas.

I think Julian as Dr. Alchemy is a feint. He's being set up. My guess is that he's Eddie Thawne who somehow "survived" the Flashpoint re-set or Savitar pulled him out of the timeline in some way.

Finally, I think at some point during this season Barry will go back in time one more time to save Dante. Probably the final episode of the season, which sets up season 4 somehow.
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Andrew Bitner
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Posted: 23 November 2016 at 8:32am | IP Logged | 24  

Kevin, your faith in Caitlin was justified and I'm glad to see it. She did have a "bad moment" and was seriously messed up when she was in the holding cell; honestly, I thought Barry's plan was more than a little reckless. But... hey, things sometimes go right for the heroes.

As for Julian's reveal, it's possible that there's more than one Alchemy. He might be one who slipped away and Savitar wants him back. I don't think he's Thawne--there's no real resemblance between the two.

As for Dante, it's possible, if Barry can see a way to do it safely, but I think Iris gave him an out on that one. Who can say Dante was going to survive with or without Flashpoint?
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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 24 November 2016 at 10:52am | IP Logged | 25  

Yeah, maybe Julian is actually Mr. Element!!! :D :D :D
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