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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security


Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 33506
Posted: 05 July 2020 at 10:54pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Again, Joe is just trolling.  It's become his norm.  He gets off on and is encouraged by people responding to his ravings.  The very definition of a troll.  Engage with him and give him air at your own peril.  
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Leigh DJ Hunt
Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 20 February 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1528
Posted: 06 July 2020 at 2:30am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

So is Kanye a fan/supporter of Trump? Is this a deliberate attempt to disrupt the Biden vote?
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Michael Roberts
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Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 13259
Posted: 06 July 2020 at 2:45am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

 So is Kanye a fan/supporter of Trump? Is this a deliberate attempt to disrupt the Biden vote?

Kanye is an egotist with a new album dropping soon who wants attention.
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Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 3807
Posted: 06 July 2020 at 7:28am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Vinny - When I was younger and idealistic, I also voted for Ross the boss. Why? I thought he wasn't the same old candidate, and that he'd bring new processes and new thoughts to the White House; that he'd drain the swamp and set us on a new road. Does that sound familiar? :D :D :D

Jason C. - I fear that you're right. Doesn't seem very fair, does it? It seems pretty obvious to me that one of the issues in this country is the Electoral College. I am pretty sure getting rid of them would be a step in the right direction.

The popular vote isn't a lot better, but it is indeed a more democratic method. I just dread that average dumb Americans will (try to) swarm and get their candidate in. Then again, after 2016... there's no telling.

Is there a better way? Right now, it seems that either someone represents us in voting, or every single vote counts individually. I'm not half smart enough to figure one out (and of course, no one would listen if I did!) But I'd sure listen to someone else's proposals...
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Christopher Frost
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Joined: 24 October 2016
Location: Canada
Posts: 404
Posted: 06 July 2020 at 8:10am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

The essence of democracy is majority rules. Whomever gets the most votes wins. If person A gets more votes than person B, then they should win. If the system is set up so that person A gets more votes than person B and somehow person B wins, then that system isn't democracy in action and needs to be reexamined.

Every vote should count, not just the ones in certain districts which is what the Electoral College has done, even if that means the masses get to choose the outcome. If we start to deny people the right to vote based on some criteria (intelligence, awareness of issues, locale, etc.), then we are undermining the spirit of democracy which is that everyone is supposed to have a voice and play a part in choosing our leaders. 

In terms of elections, simple majority should be the deciding factor i.e., whomever gets the most votes wins the seat. For more radical changes, like constitutional amendments and so forth, I can see the value in having a required two thirds majority to enact larger scale adjustments to the nations laws so that it isn't just a case of pushing agendas by the governing party as getting two thirds support would require both sides to agree on things.

Is any system perfect? No, but they can improve things with a few simple solutions like abolishing the electoral college for starters.
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Brian Floyd
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Joined: 07 July 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 6963
Posted: 06 July 2020 at 11:40am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

The argument for the Electoral College is that without it a handful of states would determine the President. 

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Dave Kopperman
Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 27 December 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1959
Posted: 06 July 2020 at 12:13pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

 Brian Floyd wrote:
The argument for the Electoral College is that without it a handful of states would determine the President.

But with it, a handful of states determines the yada yada.  Only difference is WHICH states.
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David Miller
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Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 2326
Posted: 06 July 2020 at 1:48pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Per Abraham Lincoln, the Constitution is a compact between the American people, not the states. Voters should determine elections, not arbitrary geographic boundaries. There are no differences in the cultures and interests of various states substantial enough to warrant such preposterously disproportionate weight given to small states.

And the House of Representatives should be apportioned so the smaller states have the weight intended by the Founders. California would have 80 seats to Wyoming's 1, which is eminently fair considering WY gets two senators.
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Neil Lindholm
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Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: China
Posts: 4684
Posted: 06 July 2020 at 4:53pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

When Trump first got elected, the Chinese government would use him as an example on why democracy was so flawed compared to their system. Any idiot can get into politics in a democracy but in China, they are trained and groomed for such a position. (As they say). 

We used to have a battle every year when it came time for student council elections. The Chinese admin always wanted to appoint the student council president and we always wanted the students to choose. Constant struggle. We finally took control of the process when the Chinese wanted a Korean boy disqualified from running, since it would never do to have a Korean kid in charge. He ran and his classmates voted him in by a landslide, infuriating the Chinese admin. 
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Richard Stevens
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Joined: 04 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1545
Posted: 07 July 2020 at 5:44am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

Sure, small states like Wyoming would have less power under the popular vote, but folks in the minority party in huge red or blue states would have their votes count for once.

I never want to see a Republican president again, but you could argue that going popular vote only encourages candidates to reach out to the millions and millions of Rs in states like California. It does make things more fair. A Wyoming voter still counts as much as one in New York. (and theoretically still counts more, because they are cheaper to advertise to.)
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Michael Casselman
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Joined: 14 January 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 1037
Posted: 07 July 2020 at 7:08am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

There are no differences in the cultures and interests of various states substantial enough to warrant such preposterously disproportionate weight given to small states.
Looking at my own stae of New York, I'd say there are enough differences within some states that justify the EC on a broaer scale. Once you start getting outside the boroughs of NYC, to say nothing about up the corridor to Montreal and the the Thruway over to Buffalo, you'll see enough socio/political/economic differences.
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