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Topic: Star Wars Ep. VIII:The Last Jedi - SPOILERS begin Pg 12 Post Reply | Post New Topic
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Mark Haslett
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Joined: 19 April 2004
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Posted: 06 April 2018 at 7:44pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Matt: The video I linked to above, though, nearly perfectly deals with my own criticisms of, well, the criticisms from those that did hate the film.

**

I only got as far as "Killing Snoke was like, um, clever misdirection because he was, like, supposed to be our big generic bad guy..."

Snoke remains the entire reason this "trilogy" is happening. Somehow, after ROTJ, a "First Order" arose and took over the galaxy-- more completely than the Empire. Even the destruction of its Starkiller has not stopped his death-like grip.

But, as the young lady points out, he was dispatched as if his entire presence was a misdirection. ...Except it can't be because he is the only reason there is a First Order ...which is still the badguy ...and for which there is still no explanation. ...and this is a storytelling flaw to be shrugged off?

Ok. Shrug.

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Adam Hutchinson
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Posted: 07 April 2018 at 6:58am | IP Logged | 2 post reply


 QUOTE:
Ok. Shrug.


Indeed.
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Mark Haslett
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Posted: 07 April 2018 at 3:48pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Adam: Indeed.

When you have nothing left to say, but have to say something?
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Jason Scott
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Posted: 07 April 2018 at 5:14pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

I use 'Indeed' a lot. But I blame Stargate SG1 for that! ;)
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Adam Hutchinson
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Posted: 08 April 2018 at 7:29am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Itís more like throwing my hands up and thinking, ďok thereís no middle
ground to be found here.Ē

Listen, I love Last Jedi. I think itís one of the best, if not the best Star
Wars movie but even after I first saw it on opening night I also thought
ďWow its gonna be divisive. I can see why some people arenít going to
like it.Ē And thatís cool. To each their own.

My huge pet peeve, though, is when people who donít like it (or
anything else really) treat their dislike as an objective truth and the
opinion that it is, and donít accept when fans present their equally
personally, valid opinions.

So, you donít like Last Jedi; it didnít meet your expectations and
apparently have a number of problems with Lucasfilmís choices
regarding characters and plot. Got it. I, and many people (professional
critics and ďcommanĒ fans) disagree.
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Mark Haslett
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Posted: 08 April 2018 at 11:10am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

My huge pet peeve, though, is when people who donít like it (or
anything else really) treat their dislike as an objective truth and the
opinion that it is, and donít accept when fans present their equally
personally, valid opinions.

**

The middle ground occurs when there is discussion. Posting links and misrepresenting them is not discussion. Neither is responding to a lengthy post about Snoke with a shrug (indeed).


Your opinions are valid. I'd love to hear it some day.
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Adam Hutchinson
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Posted: 08 April 2018 at 11:38am | IP Logged | 7 post reply


 QUOTE:
Snoke remains the entire reason this "trilogy" is happening.
Somehow, after ROTJ, a "First Order" arose and took over the galaxy--
more completely than the Empire. Even the destruction of its Starkiller
has not stopped his death-like grip.


Other than being the organizing force for the First Order which hasnít
taken over the galaxy at the beginning of the new trilogy, itís a military
junta from the Outer Rim that the Republic doesnít believe is a threat,
Snoke doesnít seem to be the entire reason for the new trilogy anymore
than the Death Star is the entire reason for the Original Trilogy. To em,
and apparently Lucasfilm, the entire reason for the new trilogy (other
than $$$) is the new generation of heroes and villains moving the
conflict in the galaxy forward and learning from and moving beyond the
previous generationís successes and failures.

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Adam Hutchinson
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Posted: 08 April 2018 at 11:43am | IP Logged | 8 post reply


 QUOTE:
Posting links and misrepresenting them is not discussion


Iím sorry you feel I gave your feeling short shrift but I didnít
misrepresent those links. I chose them specifically because they each
addressed a part of what you had said you never saw in a positive
review. They may not use the exact words or phrases youíre looking for
but they all address what youíre looking for in some way or another
whether you acknowledge that or not.

Even if they didnít, Iím not sure what your point is? Are you thinking that
these are disengnous positive reviews? They should given less wait
than the opinions of a, like it or not, minority thatís been very vocal in
their dislike?

You obviously have very strong opinions on this movie and the
perceived damage itís done to the franchise. Cool. I disagree.
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Mark Haslett
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Posted: 08 April 2018 at 3:46pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Adam: Other than being the organizing force for the First Order which hasnít
taken over the galaxy at the beginning of the new trilogy, itís a military
junta from the Outer Rim that the Republic doesnít believe is a threat,
Snoke doesnít seem to be the entire reason for the new trilogy anymore
than the Death Star is the entire reason for the Original Trilogy

**

So, other than being the organizational force for the entire First Order, the only villains in these movies and the whole reason there is a rebellion, Snoke is nothing more than a space station built by and for the Emperor? What nonsense is that?

In The Last Jedi, the "Rebellion" has been crushed to a literal handful of people and no one else in the galaxy answers Princess Leia's call for help. What more do they have to do to take over the galaxy?
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Mark Haslett
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Location: United States
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Posted: 08 April 2018 at 3:49pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

Adam: Iím sorry you feel I gave your feeling short shrift but I didnít
misrepresent those links.

**
I posted that no one in these online discussions of this movie defends it by hailing the plot, thrills, etc. You replied with a bunch of articles which vaguely mention these points within the mix of their positive review. Apples meet oranges.

If one of the articles was "This movie is awesome because of its awesome plot" that would be more like a response to my point. But no one ever does. Which is my point.
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Adam Hutchinson
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Posted: 08 April 2018 at 4:44pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

Head meet wall.

This is my last response to this particular and peculiar criticism.

Many people, myself included, like this movie because of the plot, the
actions of characters old and new, and because the action-y parts of it
are thrilling. Which again, those reviews I linked all say in on form or
another; along with the other reasons they liked the movie. I donít know
what specific choice of words would satisfy you but here, as my last
words on this nonsense, from the
Guardian review:

[quote] The Last Jedi gives you an explosive sugar rush of spectacle.
Itís a film that buzzes with belief in itself and its own mythic universe Ė a
euphoric certainty that I think no other movie franchise has. And there
is no provisional hesitation or energy dip of the sort that might have
been expected between episodes seven and nine.[\quote]
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Adam Hutchinson
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Posted: 08 April 2018 at 4:51pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply


 QUOTE:
So, other than being the organizational force for the entire First
Order, the only villains in these movies and the whole reason there is a
rebellion, Snoke is nothing more than a space station built by and for
the Emperor? What nonsense is that?


Correct. Snoke is the driving force whoís purpose and action initiate the
action of the trilogy; buildings the First Order, corrupting Ben Solo,
inspiring the birth of the Resistance, and so on. Heís served his
purpose. Now the real movers of the plot and themes of this trilogy
(Kylo, Rey, Finn, Poe, etc.) step forward to bring the trilogy to its climax
and resolution. Otherwise Snoke wouldíve simply been Palpatine 2.0
and weíve seen that story before.


 QUOTE:
In The Last Jedi, the "Rebellion" has been crushed to a literal
handful of people and no one else in the galaxy answers Princess
Leia's call for help. What more do they have to do to take over the
galaxy?


Youíre talking about the status quo 2/3s of the way through the trilogy.
At the beginning of Force Awakens the First Order isnít viewed as a
threat by the galaxy which is why Leia formed the Resistance separate
from the Republic. After it crippled the Republic with Starkiller it then
blitzs the galaxy and starts seizing territory and preys upon the galaxyís
lack of hope to start cementing its hold.

Edited by Adam Hutchinson on 08 April 2018 at 5:01pm
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Mark Haslett
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Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4411
Posted: 08 April 2018 at 7:00pm | IP Logged | 13 post reply

Adam: Head meet wall.

**

Me: no one makes a case for why the plot and thrills of this movie are what make it so great.

You: I like the plot. Lots of people like the plot.

NOT you: The awesome plot is exactly why I like it. The plot is so awesome because XYZ.

You: I'm so frustrated that you don't take these examples of other people saying the movie is great as evidence that they think it's great because the plot is so great.

Me: That's not what they're saying.

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Mark Haslett
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Location: United States
Posts: 4411
Posted: 08 April 2018 at 7:11pm | IP Logged | 14 post reply

Adam: Otherwise Snoke wouldíve simply been Palpatine 2.0
and weíve seen that story before.

**

He is Palpatine 2.0. The fact that he's dead didn't change that. His mysterious backstory is still the only reason there is a "First Order". And we still don't know what that is. So, as you point out, we're 2/3 through the trilogy-- and still have no idea why any of this is happening. You may like these choices, but people who don't are not wrong to point out what bad form that is. Now we get the neat new way that Kylo Ren runs the First Order... which is just like how Snoke ran it. Neato!

Adam: Youíre talking about the status quo 2/3s of the way through the trilogy.
At the beginning of Force Awakens the First Order isnít viewed as a
threat by the galaxy which is why Leia formed the Resistance separate
from the Republic.

**
And how does any of this affect the point that Snoke is the villain without whom the story of this trilogy would not exist?
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Bill Collins
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Joined: 26 May 2005
Location: England
Posts: 9647
Posted: 09 April 2018 at 10:19am | IP Logged | 15 post reply

Just watched it for the first time, it was...ok.
Adam Driver`s gait and hair made me think Keanu Ren!
Who was filming Maz Kanata? Did she take a film crew
with her?
Sometimes a steam iron is just a steam iron!
The Porgs were very cheesy,poorly animated, and the
humour involving them was cringeworthy.
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