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Topic: Confederate Momuments Removed in New Orleans Post Reply | Post New Topic
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John Byrne

Beam Me Up, Scotty!

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 106718
Posted: 24 April 2017 at 11:19am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

New York Times

Step in the right direction.

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Michael Roberts
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Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 10934
Posted: 24 April 2017 at 11:32am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

The Liberty Place monument had an inscription that explicitly
celebrated white supremacy: "United States troops took over the state
government and reinstated the usurpers but the national election
November 1876 recognized white supremacy in the South and gave us
our state."

If the monuments' defenders were truly concerned about "preserving
history", they'd want those things in a museum with context about how
they were erected by white supremacists trying to deny the reality of
the Southern secession.
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Brandon Scott Berthelot
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Joined: 06 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 554
Posted: 24 April 2017 at 1:42pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Im from the area so I have been following this for
awhile. Very much in favor of the removal.

I find it funny that the most rah rah Merica F yeah
folks are also the most pro confederacy. I love to tell
them that they might as well be erecting monuments to
Osama Bin Laden (not very accurate, but gets them riled
up).
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John Byrne

Beam Me Up, Scotty!

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 106718
Posted: 24 April 2017 at 1:53pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Tell them John Wilkes Booth. That might scratch their façade.
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Eric Smearman
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Joined: 02 September 2006
Location: United States
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Posted: 24 April 2017 at 1:59pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

The only Confederate flag I recognize is the white one they waved in
surrender.
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Michael Hogan
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Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1655
Posted: 24 April 2017 at 2:58pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

By the way, JB, I know it was inadvertent, but I love "Momuments" in
the thread title. I think I'll use it on Mother's Day!
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Steven Myers
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Joined: 10 June 2004
Location: United States
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Posted: 24 April 2017 at 4:09pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

There seem to be two types of southerners. those who want to move on and not dwell on the past because they have moved beyond the racism that prevailed in those times, and those who WON'T LET IT GO!.

And then they don't understand why they're the butt of so many jokes. Not just from us Yankees, but from all over the world.
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Brian O'Neill
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Joined: 13 November 2013
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Posted: 24 April 2017 at 7:21pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Putting aside the ideologies for a second, it's just...hella fuckin' dumb...to glorify being a loser to the extent that all these mouth-breathing Confederacy/Nazi apologists have done it.
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John Popa
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Joined: 20 March 2008
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Posted: 25 April 2017 at 6:56am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

"The only Confederate flag I recognize is the white one they waved in surrender."

-----

This is the perfect summation of the situation.
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Christopher Frost
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Joined: 24 October 2016
Location: Canada
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Posted: 25 April 2017 at 7:17am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

I often see people using the Confederate flag as their profile picture on things like Facebook and whenever they get called out on it, their typical response is to call it a symbol of Southern Pride and then attack the people criticizing them for using it. Sure, the flag might have represented that at one time, but it's been co-opted by the white supremacist movement over the years and has an ugly association with racism, bigotry and slavery as a result. People that use it or display it are obviously aware of it's negative connotations and are doing so to provoke a reaction from others despite their claims to the contrary. The ever increasing attitude emerging in society these days seems to be very ugly and has a strong undercurrent of divisiveness and "f*** you if you don't like it". It saddens me as humanity is capable of such greatness and instead all we seem to do is attack each other at every turn.
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Michael Penn
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Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
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Posted: 25 April 2017 at 7:24am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

This is progress.

Coincidentally, my friend sent me the pictures below that a passenger in his wife's car snapped just yesterday around noon while they were driving from Myrtle Beach.
...can you imagine the effort it took to make this gesture in the middle of a regular work day?

How much of a battle it will still be to change hearts and minds...!?
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Fred J Chamberlain
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Joined: 30 August 2006
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Posted: 25 April 2017 at 7:47am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Michael, you are assuming that they work, work days, etc.
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Andrew Bitner
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Joined: 01 June 2004
Location: United States
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Posted: 25 April 2017 at 8:39am | IP Logged | 13 post reply

It will take a very, very long time, but the dismantling of the myth of the Confederacy continues. Removing its symbols and monuments is a crucial step.
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John Byrne

Beam Me Up, Scotty!

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 106718
Posted: 25 April 2017 at 9:24am | IP Logged | 14 post reply

How much of a battle it will still be to change hearts and minds...!?

••

Charging a few of them with treason might send a message even they could understand.

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Mike Purdy
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Joined: 29 April 2004
Location: Canada
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Posted: 25 April 2017 at 9:49am | IP Logged | 15 post reply

Treason, yes! I also thin neo-nazis and other white supremacists who idolate Hitler and perform Nazi salutes and display the swastika should be recognized as traitors. Not only is their hate vile, but in my mind they are supporting and taking up an enemy's cause. We have fathers and grandfathers who fought against that ideology only to have it being espoused in USA and other allied countries. Assholes. 
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David Allen Perrin
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Joined: 15 April 2009
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Posts: 2128
Posted: 25 April 2017 at 1:07pm | IP Logged | 16 post reply

Can we please take a Tomahawk missile to this piece of stone bullshit?


UGH!

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Brandon Scott Berthelot
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Joined: 06 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 554
Posted: 25 April 2017 at 1:38pm | IP Logged | 17 post reply

Someone posted a meme today I thought was funny. It
referred to confederate monuments as the ultimate
participation trophy. Going to use that.
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Bob Harvey
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Joined: 19 November 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 127
Posted: 25 April 2017 at 2:16pm | IP Logged | 18 post reply

So lost causes can't be cool? I think most people would disagree with that assertion. It's why Jonah Hex and so many of Clint Eastwood's characters were former Confederate soldiers. It's why the animosity of the Irish and Scots toward England is thought to be charming. To take it a bit broader, see the Jedi, Firefly's Browncoats, Days of Future Past, Battlestar Galactica, etc.

It's fine to disagree with the ideology of the Confederacy or its modern champions, but "you lost; get over it," is a pretty lame philosophy.
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Michael Roberts
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Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
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Posted: 25 April 2017 at 2:55pm | IP Logged | 19 post reply

So lost causes can't be cool?

------

When the cause is the preservation of slavery, no.
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Mike Norris
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Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3789
Posted: 25 April 2017 at 8:48pm | IP Logged | 20 post reply

Well said, Michael. 
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John Byrne

Beam Me Up, Scotty!

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 106718
Posted: 26 April 2017 at 6:04am | IP Logged | 21 post reply

It's fine to disagree with the ideology of the Confederacy or its modern champions, but "you lost; get over it," is a pretty lame philosophy.

••

As lame as romanticizing the Confederacy as a "lost cause," as if that's all there is to this?

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Don Zomberg
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Joined: 23 November 2005
Posts: 2205
Posted: 26 April 2017 at 6:17am | IP Logged | 22 post reply

I was appalled to see Kurt Russell give props to the Confederacy on The View a while back.

"Defending their way life"? Ugh.


Edited by Don Zomberg on 26 April 2017 at 6:18am
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John Byrne

Beam Me Up, Scotty!

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 106718
Posted: 26 April 2017 at 6:38am | IP Logged | 23 post reply

"Defending their way life"? Ugh.

••

People who say things like that are ignoring two things: first, how vile and corrupt that "way of life" was, and second that said "way of life" was in no way threatened.

Lincoln was not an abolitionist at first. He only wanted to contain slavery, not outlaw it. Like most Northern intellectuals he understood that the "institution" of slavery was doomed simply by the natural changes occurring in the World. A society that depended on human bondage could not survive in the Machine Age. It was just a matter of time.*

Trouble came when the Southern states insisted on expanding slavery into the western territories, claiming "state's right," and somehow ignoring the very important fact that such rights END at state borders. One cannot commit a crime in Kentucky and defend oneself by saying it's legal in Louisiana!

If the slave-holding states had contented themselves with keeping their slaves only within their own borders, the Civil War need not have happened, and those same states would most likely have been able to seek aid from Washington as their economies began to crumble.

_____________________

* Sadly, the general contempt for the Black Race prevented most people from thinking any amount of time was too long -- most people who weren't Black, that is.

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Don Zomberg
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Joined: 23 November 2005
Posts: 2205
Posted: 26 April 2017 at 6:43am | IP Logged | 24 post reply

And it's not like slavery was good for ALL Southern Whites. Just the rich ones. 
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Fred J Chamberlain
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Joined: 30 August 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 3783
Posted: 26 April 2017 at 6:56am | IP Logged | 25 post reply

One need only follow the money and/or power to see through much of
the motivations for many conflicts..... though it is interesting to talk of
the manipulations of the U.S. Colonists and the deeper motivations for
the American Revolutionary War. Always leaves me scratching my
head, when strong and immediate dismissals follow, as if it must be an
all or nothing, black and white, good guy/bad guy scenario that is the
motivator for one's "side". Too many people pick sides as casually as
those living in a region pick a favorite football team as the best.
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