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Robert Shepherd
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Joined: 30 March 2014
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Posted: 12 May 2017 at 2:37pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Charles - That page from Avengers #165 was on m list as well. I just was waiting to see if another scene would come up to take it's place as my third pic. So far, nothing just yet.

That whole Perez/Byrne run of Avengers is my favorite run in all of comics - hands down. Perfection!


Edited by Robert Shepherd on 12 May 2017 at 2:37pm
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Thomas Adams
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Posted: 12 May 2017 at 5:31pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

So many moments from such an amazing body of work but three that pretty much immediately sprang to mind for personal reasons are:

1 - Marvel Team-Up #79 - the issue is cover dated March 1979 and so I must have got it early that year. It was one of the first (if not THE first) American comic I'd bought off the shelf. I'd have been 12 years old and I loved the story and was blown away by the art. The arrival of Red Sonja just stuck in my memory...

2 - Avengers #165 - April 1980 and The Avengers strip was being reprinted in a UK magazine called 'Marvel Superheroes'. I'd only recently got into reading superhero comics and was quickly getting up to speed on who was who character wise and, by trying out lots of different comics, which stories and art I liked - though I still wasn't putting writer/artists names to the issues just yet. But this run of The Avengers I was really enjoying, and in particular the Nefaria story and the art was great.
Count Nefaria had beaten The Avengers - twice- and then Thor shows up. The final page just cried out ... FIGHT!! It was an interminable wait until the following month's issue.

3 - X-Men #111 - November 1980 and the All New X-Men strips were being reprinted in a UK magazine called Rampage Magazine and I loved them. Then the art style changed and I loved them even more. I started to put writers and artists names to the stories and my favourite was a guy called John Byrne doing these X-Men tales. Getting to know more and more about the characters I'd figured Magneto was a major villain so when he appeared at the end of #111 - a story I was already enjoying - my jaw hit the floor. The image just exudes power and again the wait until the following month's issue and what promised to be a classic confrontation seemed to go on for ages. My 14 year old self couldn't get enough and I've been a fan of Mr. Byrne's work ever since.



Oh, and it was a few months later, re-reading my comics, that the penny finally dropped - with a loud clang - that those earlier stories with the art I really liked were by the same Mr. Byrne who was doing the X-Men. I've made sure I've checked the credits ever since.
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John Byrne

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Joined: 11 May 2005
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Posted: 12 May 2017 at 5:41pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

That Thor/Nefaria page was completely redrawn by Dave Cockrum.
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Thomas Adams
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Posted: 12 May 2017 at 7:19pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Really?!  Sorry I didn't know that.

It is a while since I've read those issues - they made an impact on me though as I still remember them to this day. Must dig them out and give them a re-read.

Was there a lot of redrawing of panels/pages?
I'm intrigued now as to why and when such things were needed and how the editorial team went about it.
Did they try and get the original artist to do it if they were available or did they just just get whichever artist was free to do it?
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Bill Dowling
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Posted: 12 May 2017 at 8:42pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

1) The fight scene between Snowbird and Kolomaq. Just seeing how much storytelling could be accomplished with just panel borders and lettering/ sound effects blew my mind. 

2) Thor testifying at Namor's trial. I don't know why, but the zipatone (sorry if I'm getting the name wrong) just finally clicked for me with the picture of Thor's face while he testified. It gave me a renewed appreciation for that period of your art. Plus, it was a really good portrayal of Thor's level of respect for man's justice system. 

3) The reveal of what the alien bride that the Super Skrull had arranged for the human he was working with in Namor looked like. It was just such a perfect ending to that tale. 



I know you get a lot of "your old stuff was better," but I don't believe that. I think the reason these are all from so long ago has more to do with it being easier to make an impression on a younger person than someone who's seen a lot more scenes in the interim. 
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Steven Myers
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Posted: 13 May 2017 at 12:25pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Little things:

Marvel Team-Up (I don't know the number) Spider-Man, Hulk, and Woodgod. My first JB comic. Two scenes I would stare at over and over: Spidey dodging laser blasts that cross between his legs. The Hulk stopping his fall by tearing the sides of a missile silo.

Another little one: Reed and Ben are fighting HERBIE, and Reed shoots a cable at Ben to keep him from falling into the Negative Zone. I loved how the cable splayed out!

Finally, the multiple-image of Nightcrawler dodging Wendigo!

Just art that fascinated me, and I still get a kick out of today!
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John Byrne

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Posted: 13 May 2017 at 1:22pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Was there a lot of redrawing of panels/pages?

Increasingly so, over the Shooter years.

There's a mind boggling story that came out of an editorial meeting, back in the day, but unfortunately it was Mark Gruenwald who told it to me, and without Mark to back it up, it can't really be repeated.

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Leigh DJ Hunt
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Posted: 14 May 2017 at 6:22am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Was just listening to an interview with Steve Englehart where some re-drawing of his last FF issue was done to deliberately attack him/his family. 

If true, what a spiteful, bitchy, unpleasant place Marvel was at times. 
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Larry Gil
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Posted: 14 May 2017 at 10:19am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Avengers 181: " Unfortunately I mentioned this to Shooter, and the next thing I knew he'd gotten George to recreate the scene for the cover. This created in the minds of many fans the same question you just asked."

***
JB was it just a coincidence that Black Panther was sitting in the chair that both you and George drew. Having both yourself and George doing the same scene in 1 issue was a fan's dream .
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Tim O'Neill
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Posted: 18 May 2017 at 7:40pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply


Picking three scenes was difficult, but ultimately it was fun to have to choose! I've been busy with work these last few weeks, but I have turning this one around in my head since the thread appeared.  It's been fun to flip through the library and consider which scenes to choose.




The first is from FANTASTIC FOUR - "Terror in a Tiny Town".  Doom kicks this scene off on the previous two page spread, looming over the city.  That was a big moment when I read this story for the first time, but this page blew me away.  The art is amazing, the reveal is perfect, and it still remains my favorite comic book story.




My second pick is from COLD WAR - "Hell on Wheels", showing Swann racing on a disguised airfield.  I dig everything about the COLD WAR series, but this was such a standout sequence.  It's the only time I've seen a car race depicted perfectly in a comic book - it's such a great idea for a two page spread.  And the whole airfield aspect amps up the cool factor.  Swann's car is awesome, but don't get too attached to it - it explodes a few pages after this!





My final choice is from STAR TREK: NEW VISIONS, "Sweet Sorrow".  This is from a short story that was in the same issue as "Time's Echo".  Since it's a short story, the whole thing could be considered a scene, but this final page is really amazing.  JB does silent scenes better than anyone, and this is my favorite.  The panel arrangement, the choice of facial expressions - it all comes together for this poignant and emotional moment.


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Thomas Woods
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Posted: 18 May 2017 at 8:41pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply



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James Woodcock
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Posted: 19 May 2017 at 2:24am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

There is a subtle thing in the Red Sonja panel posted above that is just amazing.

Her leg jewelry, the strap creates a slight indent in her leg - it's the details like that which are the reason I love JB's art. He thinks about what he is drawing. What would it really be like, but still adds the fantastic to make it look wow
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Andrew Bitner
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Posted: 19 May 2017 at 5:55am | IP Logged | 13 post reply

Reading this thread is like stepping into a time machine and revisiting classic moments, including some that redefined comics as a storytelling medium for me.
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John Byrne

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Joined: 11 May 2005
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Posted: 19 May 2017 at 6:36am | IP Logged | 14 post reply

Her leg jewelry, the strap creates a slight indent in her leg - it's the details like that which are the reason I love JB's art. He thinks about what he is drawing. What would it really be like, but still adds the fantastic to make it look wow

Thanks for noticing. This is the stuff I think really defines my work, more than the big, obvious element. I may be a "master" of perspective, or big piles of rubble, but I feel especially proud of myself when I pull off a slight turn of a wrist or, as here, something that adds an almost subliminal touch of verisimilitude.

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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 19 May 2017 at 7:38am | IP Logged | 15 post reply

When I think of Byrne art, the first thing that comes to mind would be all the nuances of body language and facial expressions.
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Doug Centers
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Posted: 19 May 2017 at 12:37pm | IP Logged | 16 post reply

Yes, the head tilt!
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James Woodcock
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Posted: 19 May 2017 at 1:57pm | IP Logged | 17 post reply

And what I also love, is how you are managing to maintain this skill for subtleness (I know, not as word) in NEW VISIONS. body language really is your best attribute.

There's an image of Moira in the Proteus issues where she is say in a chair, leaning forward, just, beat. Such a good image
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John Byrne

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Joined: 11 May 2005
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Posted: 19 May 2017 at 4:22pm | IP Logged | 18 post reply

Years ago, when the world was young and I was at the beginning of my career, I gave an interview in which I said I knew my work would never have the power of Kirby, or the quirkiness of Ditko, or the anatomical precision of Gil Kane, or the sheer magnificence of Kubert, so I decided -- counterintuitively -- to go the other was. To go for that thing that is so difficult to pull off in comics: subtlety.

It is incredibly gratifying that so many of you have noticed!

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Dusty Abell
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Posted: 19 May 2017 at 5:01pm | IP Logged | 19 post reply

These are the three that immediately spring to mind.......

It might actually be one of the most memorable images from
the Avengers entire history, at least in my opinion, it's just so
spot on at nailing the unique personality traits of all the
individual heroes.



I wish I could have found a scan of the entire sequence,
including the incredible closeup of Ororo's tongue and
teeth, that close up always amazed me. Just great
sequential storytelling, building tension and delivering a ton
of emotional impact, perfect comic book storytelling!



I just love the "mood" that this image created.... it really
struck me, and the composition is really strong, all the
implication and none of the violence actually shown on
camera.............it's like the scene discovering Chrissy's arm
on the beach in the early moments of Jaws.........



Those are my three moments from "inside" a book........
covers and pin-ups are a whole other subject!
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Josh Goldberg
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Posted: 19 May 2017 at 6:23pm | IP Logged | 20 post reply

"When I think of Byrne art, the first thing that comes to mind would be all the nuances of body language and facial expressions."
****

For me, it's the sets.  They look so real and lived-in.  Just look at this room. Look at the hat boxes under the bed.


Look at the living room.  The architecture: the staircase, the divider, the planters, all the knick-knacks on top of the piano.

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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 19 May 2017 at 6:37pm | IP Logged | 21 post reply

Yeah, "props" and "sets" are expressive of character, and our host is a master at creating that stuff.
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Robert Shepherd
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Posted: 19 May 2017 at 7:23pm | IP Logged | 22 post reply

... I knew my work would never have the power of Kirby, or the quirkiness of Ditko, or the anatomical precision of Gil Kane, or the sheer magnificence of Kubert, so I decided -- counterintuitively -- to go the other was. To go for that thing that is so difficult to pull off in comics: subtlety. 

****

It's great seeing an artist with humility, but I have to disagree with you  (with all respect). Sure you nailed down the subtlety, and maybe your art isn't as quirky as Ditko's later style (it could have been had you wanted too), but I absolutely think you captured the power,  anatomical precision, and sheer magnificence.

In fact I think that's why your art stands out - you had the right balance of all those styles.

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Doug Centers
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Posted: 19 May 2017 at 7:35pm | IP Logged | 23 post reply

Regarding the Avengers panel above; my 13yo reaction was the same as Wasp's that she had made the cut, stunned!
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Peter Martin
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Posted: 20 May 2017 at 2:53pm | IP Logged | 24 post reply

This from FF #242 is the one that unexpectedly sprang to mind:



The whole issue (and mini-arc) is a fave, of course, but what I like about this particular scene is the sense of fun, Ben using his great strength in a way that's kind of easy to relate to real life and that good old trope of the thugs getting their comeuppance when they pick on the wrong person. This was one of the first issues from JB's run I picked up and I also liked how there was a sense of the heroes being up to their own individual, special adventures in their own title -- Ben didn't look like the Thing I knew and I didn't know the story behind it. But I knew there was some kind of story behind it and it was fun to be involved.

On to #2 and it's one that's already been mentioned up-thread. It's from FF #285 and it's the panels juxtaposing the mention of the fuel turning poor Tommy into the Torch, and then Tommy's silhouette next to the fuel can. The reader is forced into adding 2 and 2 together together and coming up with the horrible outcome.

And my final one. I'm going to go with Alpha Flight #19.


I post the page above, but really it's the whole business of going back in time to find out what brought Ranaq back in the present, the wild west setting crossed with conjuring up one of the Great Beasts and then the inability to meddle with what has always been.


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Philippe Negrin
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Posted: 21 May 2017 at 10:06am | IP Logged | 25 post reply

Thanks for posting the scene with Storm and the hairpin Dusty. I think it might be my n1 as well. I remember spending hours looking at it and reveling in the horror and tension.
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