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Shane Matlock
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 August 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 1760
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| Posted: 20 July 2017 at 2:38pm | IP Logged | 1
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What if the Doctor regenerated as a chimpanzee? Think of the possibilities!
*****
Hahahaha! Well played, sir.
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Joe S. Walker
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 605
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| Posted: 20 July 2017 at 2:47pm | IP Logged | 2
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The "he's lived for centuries and been through 12 regenerations and always been a white male, why shouldn't he become a woman," is just as well reversed: after keeping that core identity that long, why should he?
But in any case, people expecting depths of imagination from Chris Chibnall are likely to be seriously disappointed.
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Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 15788
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| Posted: 20 July 2017 at 3:30pm | IP Logged | 3
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The "he's lived for centuries and been through 12 regenerations and always been a white male, why shouldn't he become a woman," is just as well reversed: after keeping that core identity that long, why should he?------------------------------------- Empiricism?
In my list of core characteristics, I also left out that the Doctor is always British. Obviously having a regional accent from Earth of any sort makes no sense, but the argument against ditching the Britishness and going for something new is pretty much the same as those against changing any other long-standing core characteristic.
Edited by Peter Martin on 20 July 2017 at 3:32pm
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Eric Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 October 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 2291
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| Posted: 20 July 2017 at 7:22pm | IP Logged | 4
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Just like with so many comics of recent years, this might have been a good idea to explore for a few episodes, but the last three actors cast stuck around for an average of FIVE years each! This will be THE Doctor for a whole TV generation!
And, likewise, this might have been a good idea to explore a few years ago or a few years from now, but doing it right now (with Caitlyn Jenner and bathroom laws in the news) will make the Doctor the poster child for transgenderism--is that the best thing for the character?
And, while it might make perfect sense for this one particular character to gender bend once, you KNOW the argument will be extended to other characters like James Bond, Sherlock Holmes, and who knows who else.
You hate to be a stick in the mud, but maybe it isn't wise to throw open the barn doors and let all the livestock go for a run.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132263
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| Posted: 20 July 2017 at 7:44pm | IP Logged | 5
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I'm remembering an AOL chatroom some years ago, in which the subject of aging fictional characters in real time came up. I pointed out that Batman would have been in his nineties, and, of course, someone chirped up to say they thought that would be "very interesting."sigh
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Anthony J Lombardi
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 9410
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| Posted: 20 July 2017 at 8:01pm | IP Logged | 6
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I'm remembering an AOL chatroom some years ago, in which the subject of aging fictional characters in real time came up. I pointed out that Batman would have been in his nineties, and, of course, someone chirped up to say they thought that would be "very interesting."~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Old man Bruce Wayne might be interesting (Batman Beyond). 90 year old Batman is ridiculous. I picture Lord James Falsworth in action against Baron Blood in Captain America 254
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Cory Vandernet
Byrne Robotics Member
Henchman
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 848
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| Posted: 20 July 2017 at 8:43pm | IP Logged | 7
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I agree with Eric Ladd, I believe that gender swapping James Bond would be a bad idea. In such a case Eon Productions should take their lead from Mad Max - Fury Road.
Eon could make a James Bond film where the mission requires 007 and, let's say, 008 (A female agent who would have a Fleming-ish sounding name) have to pose as Man and Wife. During the film we find that 008 is just as bad-ass as 007, then Eon could double down with 2 separate double0 series.
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Thomas Woods
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 09 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1356
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| Posted: 20 July 2017 at 8:48pm | IP Logged | 8
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Make new characters, don't screw up old ones.
If it is an alternate universe, like Ultimate X-Men,
change their history a bit, but don't go changing
everything about them.
My guess is that a female James Bond would bomb, Dr.
Who, never been a fan so can't say.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132263
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| Posted: 21 July 2017 at 3:50am | IP Logged | 9
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A female agent who would have a Fleming-ish sounding name…•• As long as we remember that "Pussy Galore" was the exception, not the model!
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Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 4789
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| Posted: 21 July 2017 at 4:02am | IP Logged | 10
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I think that "Atomic Blonde" is a great venue for a female action/adventure lead; I have no issue with it, and I'll appreciate it if I ever watch it.
But wouldn't a female James Bond movie be more about the character than the movie? And wouldn't it be using the 007 title to sell the actress rather than the actress selling the Bond movie? Not that the most recent Bond movies haven't been a little more about Bond than the story ANYHOW... (and the nightmare extension of that happened in the two Charlie's Angels movies. Oh my god, was there SUPPOSED to be a story in those?)
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132263
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| Posted: 21 July 2017 at 4:20am | IP Logged | 11
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We've had a female "M". which ignored the reasons Fleming established for why the character had that title. We can sort of dance around that a bit by guessing that after the retirement of the longtime department head who started the name, it was kept out of respect and "continuity".But when I hear "female James Bond" all I can think of is the Sixties spoof CASINO ROYALE, where everybody was code named "James Bond".
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Eric Ladd
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 August 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 4506
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| Posted: 21 July 2017 at 5:30am | IP Logged | 12
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Peter Martin, thanks for the education and explanation. Gender bending is a tough subject lately because it seems any opposition is viewed as sexism. I've been trying to construct my reasoning for and against it, but the particulars are so complex that it is easy to fall into earning a scarlet letter for your trouble. In theater, gender bending and blind casting does sometimes lend itself to another exploration of a story. Seeing a "Queen" Lear or a female Richard III can add to the play and I heard of a Romeo and Juliet where the two families were not the same race set in the deep south that visually commented on interracial relationships. But these are single texts that are explored over and over. There is no concern to moving forward with a character or group of characters while maintaining some consistency with the stories that came before. Lately, my objections take the form of missing out on something unique instead of the white washing argument. While I still think it is disingenuous to simply cast an established character in another race or gender as gimmick, I am not apposed to gender bending or racially blind casting. But there should be a good reason to stray other than ticket sales or grabbing a headline.
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