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Eric Ladd
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 16 August 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 4506
Posted: 20 July 2017 at 8:00am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

With the announcement of the actor playing the next Dr. Who and recent proclamations that Charlize Theron should be the next James Bond on the heels of Atomic Blonde the subject of gender bending is once again in full swing.

I am not a huge fan of Doctor Who, but from what I hear it has been established a number of times that the Doctor can be reincarnated as either sex. While the property has had a long line of male Doctors, there doesn't seem to be any reason to maintain a male only casting. Did we miss out on a Dudi Dench or Helen Mirren Doctor a few decades ago due to habitual casting? On this property I don't understand the objections to casting Jodie Whittaker. Perhaps someone can explain why casting a woman as Doctor Who is bad?

Regarding James Bond though, I take a different stance. I am all for seeing female leads in spy roles. I would much rather see Atomic Blonde movies that run into the future. However, I think casting a woman as James Bond deviates a great deal from the property and established norms. In many ways I see it as insulting to throw a female actress this role instead of creating something new, but similar. Casting Chalize Theron as James Bond in Spectre means we don't get Atomic Blonde. We miss out on the creation of something new and at least from what I have seen so far, something great. People keep tossing around the qualities of James Bond must be present in an actor to play the role, but do we have to take away from creating something unique in the process? I would much rather see the adventures of another double 0 British Agent that is female. There are eight other numbers to choose from, right?
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Leigh DJ Hunt
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Joined: 20 February 2008
Location: United Kingdom
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Posted: 20 July 2017 at 9:43am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Perhaps someone can explain why casting a woman as Doctor Who is bad?
--------------------------------------
The general response seems to be "he's a man, he's always been a man, it's political correctness gone mad!"

Personally as a fan since the mid 70s I've quite excited by it and wish other fans were just as happy to embrace change, fairness, kindness, equality and the other things that the Doctor HIMself usually promotes.
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Mark McConnell
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Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
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Posted: 20 July 2017 at 10:00am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Well, Charlize was born in South-Africa, but I think they could find plenty of British (or even British Commonwealth) actresses if they want to make a female 007.  Blake Lively and Ryan Reynold's daughter is a James.  For the most part, no one likes it as a female name, although Jamie is definitely acceptable.
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Eric Ladd
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Joined: 16 August 2004
Location: Canada
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Posted: 20 July 2017 at 10:01am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

I read the comments of someone that explained the idea of the regeneration not being gender specific was broached back in the 70's during Matt Smith's run, also in an episode written by Neil Gaiman and again in the last Clara episode. It was also touched on with "Missy" and one more time with a monologue by Capaldi two episodes ago. I see the Capaldi monologue as more of a setup, but it does seem that very early in the series that gender specificity was not on the table. I have been encouraged by many friends to watch Doctor Who, but can count the number of episodes I have seen on one hand. While no expert, it seems to me that putting off the casting a female Doctor until now represents some missed opportunity more than anything else.
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Erin Anna Leach
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Joined: 21 February 2006
Location: United States
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Posted: 20 July 2017 at 10:41am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

UHmm, Eric, Matt Smith did not play the Doctor in the 70's. Matt Smith was the Doctor before Capaldi. There were a lot of transgender references in the last episode of this season. When Bill said if she could be me she would rather die. That is a extremely common transgender thought and position. Changing the Doctor from a man to a woman, well it just doesn't get any more transgender than that. Yes, it has long been established that the Doctor can regenerate as either sex. I wonder if any skin pigment is also included in that as well?
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Joe S. Walker
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Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United Kingdom
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Posted: 20 July 2017 at 10:45am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

As I've said elsewhere, genderswapping any character shows that the people doing it really have no ideas for that character.
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Michael Roberts
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Joined: 20 April 2004
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Posted: 20 July 2017 at 10:46am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Yes, it has long been established that the Doctor can regenerate as either sex. I wonder if any skin pigment is also included in that as well?

---
In "Hell Bent", we saw a Time Lord regenerate from a white man to a black woman. 
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Eric Ladd
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 16 August 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 4506
Posted: 20 July 2017 at 10:57am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Erin, I missed a comma after 70's. It should read "back in the 70's, during Matt Smith's" so completely my mistake. Thanks for the correction. The point being that if gender, color or even species is possible from regeneration to regeneration, then why the uproar?


Edited by Eric Ladd on 20 July 2017 at 11:07am
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Joseph Greathouse
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Joined: 19 August 2015
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Posted: 20 July 2017 at 10:59am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

"As I've said elsewhere, genderswapping any character shows that the people doing it really have no ideas for that character."

As I've said elsewhere, that mindset generally demonstrates a very shallow imagination in regard to new possibilities.
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John Byrne

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Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132235
Posted: 20 July 2017 at 11:59am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

What if the Doctor regenerated as a chimpanzee? Think of the possibilities!
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Anthony J Lombardi
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Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: United States
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Posted: 20 July 2017 at 12:34pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply


What if the Doctor regenerated as a chimpanzee? Think of the possibilities!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Edited by Anthony J Lombardi on 20 July 2017 at 12:36pm
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Peter Martin
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Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 15778
Posted: 20 July 2017 at 1:14pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Regeneration is renewal, not reincarnation. This has been slowly morphed over time till we reached the point where The Master turns up as Missy and a Time Lord regenerates into a Time Lady in Hell Bent. In terms of what is long established in the show.... we have had the Doctor regenerating into a man consistently, we had Romana regenerating into a woman, we have had other Time Lords like Borusa consistently appear as a man in multiple regenerations. I don't see it as being long established that the Doctor can regenerate into a woman; it seems a fairly new development.

The Doctor is a relatively mysterious character, but there were some points of consistency established in the original run from 1963 to 1989. He was a grandfather, with a grandaughter called Susan. He had a ship called the TARDIS that could travel in space and time but it didn't work properly. He often did not know very much about the places he visits. He was not particularly powerful or fearsome, often taken prisoner by his enemies or having to run when confronted by danger.

The new show has gone about undermining all these things. Yes, it opens up new possibilities. Not sure we actually have anything left of what was repeatedly established over decades in the classic run.

I'm all for equal opportunities. If they had decided it would make an exciting change to make Romana the lead and run with a story in which the Doctor is taken out of action for an extended period, I think it would have been an interesting change without fundamentally altering who that character was.

Theoretically we can say regeneration opens up pretty much any possibility for a change in the character, but I would argue that in practice you cannot do so without altering (or undoing) certain fundamentals. For example, the Doctor has always been interesting, charismatic, larger than life, brave, anti-authority, committed to doing what is right, curious and so on.

Theoretically we could argue any personality is possible and introduce a boring, conformist, incurious six year old. But it would be a black swan event, ignoring all that had been established before... For the sake of doing something new.

I don't think it works to do that in serial fiction.

Similarly, many have expressed an opinion that they prefer an older Doctor. I don't think that is inherently an ageist comment (or reverse-ageist, if there is such a thing!), even though logically a process of renewal should give the Doctor a younger body. However, the show has had the Doctor regenerating often enough as an older man for this to be not an unreasonable expectation, I think (and in fact, Hartnell, Troughton, Pertwee and Tom Baker who pretty much defined the character were not young men). We could argue Peter Davison being so young was one of those changes that forever altered the character, and not necessarily for the better. All that we know, is that once it was done, it couldn't be undone.


Edited by Peter Martin on 20 July 2017 at 1:21pm
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