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Topic: Characters that have gotten better thru change. Post Reply | Post New Topic
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Anthony J Lombardi
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 9410
Posted: 23 July 2017 at 7:51pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Between all the discussions about favorite characters, and race and gender swapping. We often speak of liking characters the more the way they were when first created. 

I guess that's probably true for about 99.9% of the characters created. But that .1%, we never talk about them.  So I think now is a good time to forget about the negative and think about the positive aspect of characters that have been changed from what the originally started out as. And are better for it.

So I ask you all what characters do you think are better because they've been changed?

The first that comes to mind is Adam Warlock. The character has come a long way for being HIM. 

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Kevin Brown
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 31 May 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 8838
Posted: 23 July 2017 at 8:01pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Here's my list:


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Paul Kimball
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 21 September 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 2163
Posted: 23 July 2017 at 8:57pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

I feel like a lot of villains have gotten better through change, just about
anyone on Ostrander's suicide squad would b can example

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Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 15727
Posted: 23 July 2017 at 10:07pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

I think a lot of characters have a period of bedding in when it takes times for the creative folk to find that groove and finally arrive at a settled mythos.

It took time for Batman to draw a line at killing people, for Robin to find his Marian, for the Doctor to be a Time Lord and come from Gallifrey. So I think some early change is to be expected.

But once that period of early volatility settles down to form the stable versions of a character in serial fiction, it becomes much harder to identify those that have been modified subsequently to create an improved version.

The comedy element that JB added to She-Hulk springs to mind as a welcome addition, though I can't say that I definitely prefer that to the version that was in the FF.

I'd say my favourite version of Captain Marvel was the one that exchanged placed with Rick Jones via the Nega-Bands, which is markedly different from the original Kree soldier.

Visually, I think giving the Van Dyck beard to the Green Arrow in the late 60s worked a treat.


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Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14812
Posted: 24 July 2017 at 12:02am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Hulk
She-Hulk
Deadpool
Superman
Lex Luthor
Batman

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Rodrigo castellanos
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 03 July 2012
Location: Uruguay
Posts: 1434
Posted: 24 July 2017 at 12:55am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Superman
Batman
Green Lantern
Flash
Captain America
Hulk
X-Men
Daredevil
Thor

Just off the top of my head
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Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 4789
Posted: 24 July 2017 at 3:51am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

That's pretty hard. I can think of a few...

Sue Storm. Her character, role in the FF, and powers evolved.

The X-Men were WRITTEN to evolve and change... being in a school implies growth, education, learning, graduation, etc.

Old br'er Hawkeye worked better as a hero than a villain, I feel.

I liked it a little better when Lois Lane and Jimmy Olsen weren't quite the victim of the month or the joke of the month, and started being independently capable. They were still associated with Superman, and they need him sometimes... but they were no longer the victim of the story, crying for Superman to save them every... single... story...

Alfred Pennyworth is tons better than Alfred Beagle... but we can make the Earth-1/Earth-2 exception on that, I guess.

I liked Iron Man's armor evolutions, even though occasionally it was the power ex machina with some of them.

The Legion of Super Heroes seemed design to grow in nature, and adding some personalities was very nice too. "The future ain't what it used to be..." and I think that was a good thing in a lot of ways.
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Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12186
Posted: 24 July 2017 at 5:05am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

I'd say my favourite version of Captain Marvel was the one that exchanged placed with Rick Jones via the Nega-Bands, which is markedly different from the original Kree soldier.

***

Same here. Both visually and conceptually, I preferred what came later.
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John Byrne

Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132132
Posted: 24 July 2017 at 6:06am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

I'd say my favourite version of Captain Marvel was the one that exchanged placed with Rick Jones via the Nega-Bands, which is markedly different from the original Kree soldier.

••

All that was missing was a magic word!

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Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 15727
Posted: 24 July 2017 at 6:20am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

Ha! True!
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Wallace Sellars
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 01 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 17659
Posted: 24 July 2017 at 6:24am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

After going through that sort of settling period that Peter mentioned, here are
the examples of a superhero changing for the better come to mind.

Daredevil - His original wisecracking persona was too similar to Spider-
Man's.

Green Arrow - In some ways, he used to be Batman-With-Arrows.

The Invisible Woman - Sue benefitted from the addition of a force field
and a stronger role on the team.

She-Hulk - Jen just wasn't that interesting as a savage, and even after
that phase remained pretty dull until JB (who credits Mr. Stern) made her fun.

Sub-Mariner This one is tough, but finally explaining and addressing
those destructive mood swings was a good thing. (Hmmm… A couple of these
feel more like natural development than changes in the way I was originally
thinking…)

Wonder Woman - Increasing her strength, giving her the power of flight
and emphasizing her ties to the Greek gods more made her more interesting to
me. (Thanks, Sr. Perez!)
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Wallace Sellars
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 01 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 17659
Posted: 24 July 2017 at 6:27am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

All that was missing was a magic word!



*guffaw*

I was never able to think of him as the real Captain Marvel.

Curiously, I don't have a problem accepting that Carol Danvers is now Marvel's
Captain Marvel.
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