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Topic: Characters that have gotten better thru change. Post Reply | Post New Topic
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Robert Bradley
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Joined: 20 September 2006
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Posted: 24 July 2017 at 6:36am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Sue Storm is probably the most obvious choice.
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Michael Penn
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Posted: 24 July 2017 at 7:25am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

The best and by far broadest Marvel change, I think, was when Stan Lee stopped aging everybody.
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John Byrne

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Joined: 11 May 2005
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Posted: 24 July 2017 at 9:26am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

The best and by far broadest Marvel change, I think, was when Stan Lee stopped aging everybody.

••

It's not often that we can see a moment like that so clearly marked, but when Stan and Jack got rid of Franklin Richards by shipping him off to Whisper Hill and the care of Agatha Harkness, the intent was clearly to remove from FANTASTIC FOUR a constant reminder that time was not passing as it does in our world.

If only later writers had understood.

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Adam Schulman
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Posted: 24 July 2017 at 12:14pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

JB -- who brought Franklin back? Gerry Conway? Marv Wolfman? 

Anyway -- I know they've already been mentioned but Green Arrow and Daredevil are the standouts for me in terms of "real change" being good and necessary. 

GA had no real personality to speak of and he was totally a Batman clone -- Oliver Queen was very rich, had an "Arrowcar," a kid sidekick, etc. Only when Neal Adams and Denny O'Neil got ahold of him did he become even slightly interesting.

Daredevil was a potentially interesting character -- lawyer by day and vigilante by night, has superpowers but is still handicapped -- yet nobody did anything particularly memorable with him until Frank Miller came along.

I criticize Miller pretty often but I'll always love his run on Daredevil. (Admittedly the Miller/Janson art team -- was there ever a more perfect pairing? -- has a lot to do with that.)
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Leigh DJ Hunt
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Posted: 24 July 2017 at 12:22pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

A more obscure one but I've always loved Songbird since she stopped being Screaming Mimi.
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Chris Wood
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Posted: 24 July 2017 at 1:07pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply


All that was missing was a magic word!


Not a magic word, but at least they used a sound effect, "KA-TANG," as I recall.
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John Byrne

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Posted: 24 July 2017 at 2:56pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

JB -- who brought Franklin back? Gerry Conway? Marv Wolfman?

•••

Franklin wasn't so much "brought back" as he kind of seeped back into the stories. Fanboy writers who had to cross every t and dot every j could not simply leave him unmentioned. And each time he was a little bit older. By the time I took over FF some were insisting he was 14!

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Shane Matlock
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Posted: 24 July 2017 at 3:26pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

The Hulk. Ba dum tss.

Also, it's funny that Franklin is much younger than 14 NOW in comics than he was when JB took over the title. I'd put his age around 10 maybe?
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Shane Matlock
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Posted: 24 July 2017 at 3:28pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Sue Storm is probably the most obvious choice.

*****

Now there is a positive change to a character if there ever was one. JB sure knew how to write the Fantastic Four in a way that no one else outside of Lee and Kirby has ever accomplished.
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Dave Phelps
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Posted: 24 July 2017 at 4:39pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

From a more evolutionary standpoint, Wally West and Barbara Gordon (up to New 52) on the DC side and Peter Parker (up to ASM #400) and Sue Richards on the Marvel side.

If we go with a more "re-creation" approach, Perez' Wonder Woman, JB's Superman (compared to the Schwartz incarnation) and O'Neil/Adams Green Arrow.

(Although that does bring up an argument as to what we consider to be "change." I think the Jay Garrick Flash and Alan Scott Green Lantern characters benefited from becoming the "elder statesmen" of the post-Crisis (or rather post-Armageddon Inferno) DCU, but they were still themselves.)

Edited by Dave Phelps on 24 July 2017 at 4:41pm
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Anthony J Lombardi
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Posted: 24 July 2017 at 5:22pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply


(Although that does bring up an argument as to what we consider to be "change."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Different from what they were when they were originally created. Whatever that change may have been or how that change came about is of no consequence I think. 


Edited by Anthony J Lombardi on 24 July 2017 at 5:23pm
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Steven Myers
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Posted: 24 July 2017 at 6:08pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Thor comes to mind. Changing the character from a man who has Thor's powers to him being the actual Thor made the character much different. Walter Simonson removing the Don Blake persona was also a good change. Thor was always more interesting as Thor than as Don Blake.
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