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Charles Valderrama
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Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
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Posted: 11 November 2017 at 4:40pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Let's not make excuses for anyone, regardless of their political leanings or their sexual orientation or anything else. 

Sexual harassment is sexual harassment, period. 

********
Sadly, the accused are presumed guilty first.... there are many who will exploit this current issue, making it harder for those who are genuine to be taken seriously. I'll wait to see how these accusations develop into real cases as this is really serious on both sides.

-C!
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David Miller
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Posted: 11 November 2017 at 6:46pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Context has something to do with it. Roy Moore has spent decades in public office behaving as a demonstrably corrupt and hypocritical sleaze bag. He lost the benefit of the doubt years ago. He defied orders from the Supreme Court. He was removed from office twice. He tormented homosexuals who were unfortunate enough to fall under his power in court. He received a secret six figure salary from a nonprofit set up to employ him and members of his family. The trajectory is inevitable, and the only real surprise is he wasn't raping teen boys. And voters should presume his innocence and elect him to abuse yet another public office? 

Likewise with Weinstein. I've read enough about his abuses that rape was bleakly unsurprising.
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David Miller
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Posted: 11 November 2017 at 7:05pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Child abuse is unfortunately normalized in what I'll politely restrict to Southern political culture. South Carolina senator Strom Thurmond, segregationist presidential candidate and civil rights villain of two parties, started grooming his eventual second wife before she was six years old, before marrying her when she was 22 and he 66. This disgusting episode of child rape is romanticized in his home town as a fairy tale about a little princess who tamed that ol' rascal Strom. Visitors to the Aiken Historical Museum can see this 4' x 5' photo hanging in a place of honor in the Strom Thurmond wing:

 

In Seattle, the former mayor was dogged with allegations of sexual abuse for years before the camel's back broke earlier in 2017; I suspect the reluctance of liberals to confront a real-life example of an ugly gay stereotype helped delay the inevitable. But there was never a civic conversation about the precise boundaries of statutory rape like they're having in Alabama.


Edited by David Miller on 11 November 2017 at 7:25pm
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Steve De Young
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Joined: 01 April 2008
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Posted: 11 November 2017 at 7:47pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

And not only that, to have people defend it using the Bible?
----------------------------------
As Bill Maher also pointed out last night, sort of the whole point of the story in the Bible is that Mary and Joseph didn't have sex.
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Matt Reed
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Joined: 16 April 2004
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Posted: 12 November 2017 at 2:08am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

 Charles Valderrama wrote:
I'll wait to see how these accusations develop into real cases as this is really serious on both sides.

It is serious, I agree.  But I'll also add that in many of these situations there will be no "real cases" at all.  Many have long passed the statute of limitations with regard to being prosecutable. So if we're waiting until there's an actual criminal case brought against the accused, then the Weinstein's and the Moore's of the world have already won.  Sure, Weinstein's career is in the toilet (yet Moore will more than likely beat Jones) but they won't be brought to court.  Their years long abuse was bought and paid for via pay offs, threats of litigation or, in the case of Moore, the child being too young to actually understand what was going on.  With that in mind, does that mean that we then can't believe any of the accusers? That without an actual trial, the accused are to be considered innocent?  Or can we as a society agree that there are limitations to the rules of law wherein someone can't be held accountable in a court of law but can nonetheless be guilty of a crime when scores of people from different walks of life, from all over the country, and none of whom have "colluded" come forward with the same story of abuse?

I'm all for restraint, but I'll also cop to siding with those that have absolutely nothing to gain from publicly coming forward except to spare others the pain that they've endured. Not one of these accusers has asked for money (except Cory Feldman which is a whole other level of ick) and the reactions they get from the unwashed via Twitter and elsewhere are unflattering...and that's being kind. 
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Doug Centers
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Posted: 12 November 2017 at 6:52am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Well, if I was wrongly accused in the public arena of such things, you can bet I would be suing for defamation of character.

I'm guessing we're not going to hear from many of the accused on this point.
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Charles Valderrama
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Posted: 13 November 2017 at 1:02pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

I'm all for restraint, but I'll also cop to siding with those that have absolutely nothing to gain from publicly coming forward except to spare others the pain that they've endured.

**********

When you word it that way, Matt, I totally agree.... just concerned that in this wave of accusations, someone can be accused wrongly - simply as a vendetta/smear tactic. (Course, most of what's been reported with multiple victims don't apply to this.)

BTW, over the weekend, DC Comics announced it has suspended longtime editor Eddie Berganza after new details emerged about previous allegations of sexual misconduct in and outside the office.

The hits keep coming!!

-C!
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Charles Valderrama
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Joined: 16 April 2004
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Posted: 06 December 2017 at 2:00pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

And now, Senate Dems are pushing Sen. Al Franken to the brink of resignation over recent accusations of inappropriate behavior...


-C!
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Mark Haslett
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Joined: 19 April 2004
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Posted: 06 December 2017 at 5:01pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

I roll my eyes whenever people bring up Bill Clinton's "abuses" with consenting adults, and a string of women bankrolled by right-wing millionaires.

**

People who don't suspect Bill Clinton is a rapist likely haven't seriously looked at the evidence. Here is one left-leaning site's analysis: VOX on Clinton Rape Allegations.
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Neil Lindholm
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Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: Macau
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Posted: 06 December 2017 at 5:15pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

Tearful Liberal MP should accept James Bezan's fifth apology and move on

The pendulum is starting to swing. 
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Brian Miller
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Joined: 28 July 2004
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Posted: 06 December 2017 at 8:07pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

So, the Democrats that are accused are called upon to resign and it looks like Franken is going to. Meanwhile, a republican that admits to sexually assaulting women gets elected President and an accused pedophile is supported by the Republican Party and defended by Christians. 

What the fuck is happening in this country?!? Itís like looking into some bizarro, alternate reality. 

(And no, Iím not saying itís ok for the Democrats to do it too)
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Eric Sofer
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Joined: 31 January 2014
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Posted: 07 December 2017 at 9:50am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Brian is right. Worst of all is that politicians and businessmen who truly repent of their actions and are genuinely sorry are leaving their positions... showing the integrity and character that we NEED in such positions.*

Damned assholes who couldn't care less, and who are NOT in the least apologetic (and may not even understand that what they did is wrong) are staying in droves. Deny, deny, deny, deflect, deflect, deflect...

The system is now in place to purge the good elements from our society, while having no effect on the worst members. Congratulations... we're weeding out the people we should want to stay.

*Yes, I know that some men are withdrawing because they don't want to get caught. I guess those assholes don't have the integrity to admit what they did... but at least they're gone.
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Charles Valderrama
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Posted: 07 December 2017 at 11:20am | IP Logged | 13 post reply

Dems are forcing harassers and predators out of their ranks at the same time that Republicans are welcoming them into theirs.

This country has lost it.

-C!
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Jason Czeskleba
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Joined: 30 April 2004
Posts: 4033
Posted: 07 December 2017 at 1:52pm | IP Logged | 14 post reply

 Charles Valderrama wrote:
This country has lost it.

And in other news, Paul Ryan announced today that now that he has (just about) succeeded in enacting massive tax cuts for the wealthy, his legislative priority for next year is to cut Medicare and Social Security in order to reduce the deficit created by his massive tax cuts for the wealthy.  Good lord. They've gotten so brazen they aren't even pretending to care about anyone except the ultra rich.  He's flat-out admitting he wants to cut the social safety net to give more money to the rich. 

Historically, the conventional wisdom has always been that pursuing cuts to Medicare and Social Security in an election year is political suicide.  But so much of the conventional wisdom has gone out the window in the last couple years I don't know what to think anymore.  Other than that if Americans can't be persuaded to pay attention to this issue and vote according to their own best interests, we truly are screwed as a country.
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Adam Schulman
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Joined: 22 July 2017
Posts: 279
Posted: 07 December 2017 at 2:38pm | IP Logged | 15 post reply

I was particularly disappointed to hear about John Conyers' bad behavior. I remember hearing that he was the only candidate for office that Martin Luther King ever endorsed.
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Karl Wiebe
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Joined: 06 December 2015
Location: Canada
Posts: 58
Posted: 07 December 2017 at 8:16pm | IP Logged | 16 post reply

I find the Al Franken resignation really disturbing.  I can totally understand that people are upset.  But I find it irritating when elected officials resign because other people (like the media, or citizens, or other elected officials) demand they resign.  They were elected.  So if they are convicted of a crime, then great, go ahead and step down.  Otherwise, shouldn't it up to the voters to decide if Franken should go or not?

In Canada we had Rob Ford (mayor of Toronto, notorious for consuming crack) and he didn't step down.  Officials were outraged.  Much of the public was outraged.  He said (paraphrasing) "either arrest me or let me get to work".  Doing crack is a crime.  The police will come and arrest you. 

But in Al Franken's case, I fear that the police here are the "morality police" decided that Al Franken had to go. Voters don't get a say.  At least let the process play out! 
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Brian Miller
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Location: United States
Posts: 24824
Posted: 07 December 2017 at 9:27pm | IP Logged | 17 post reply

Jesus Christ. Canít make this stuff up, people. Roy Moore thinks The last time America was great was during slavery times. Keep supporting him, GOP!

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Brian Floyd
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Joined: 07 July 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 5582
Posted: 08 December 2017 at 12:41am | IP Logged | 18 post reply

There is no way to justify putting him in office. I've even heard that some people commented that they don't care if he's a pedo, at least he's not a Democrat or a Liberal. Those are some seriously f'd up priorities right there, and anyone who feels that way should do us all a favor and never ever vote again. 

Don't get me started on Paul Ryan. I wish some dirt would come out on him. He proved he was a moron back when he was Romney's running mate and got schooled by Biden during the VP candidate debate. Biden shot down just about everything Ryan claimed.

The more crap the GOP pulls, the more I'm tempted to go register as a Democrat.....




Edited by Brian Floyd on 08 December 2017 at 10:48pm
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