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Topic: When was Warp Drive Developed? Post Reply | Post New Topic
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Eric Sofer
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Joined: 31 January 2014
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Posted: 16 February 2018 at 9:54am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

That certainly defies Kirk's being the youngest captain in Starfleet history.

Is it reasonable to consider that Cochrane created warp drive, measured in time-warp factors, and then so refined and updated the process that it was practically new, and that the new process supplanted the prior "warp driver" without changing its name? Just the fact that the measurement scale changed names suggests to me that there could have been a sea change.

We have a few phrases like that now, e.g., dialing a phone, taping a movie, etc. Maybe that might blur some of the timing. Then again, that would be going forward... it wouldn't push Cochrane's creation any further into the past. 
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 16 February 2018 at 10:44am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

That certainly defies Kirk's being the youngest captain in Starfleet history.
++++++++

An idea which, like so many TOS ideas that have been accepted by fandom, was never actually mentioned within the series proper.
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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 16 February 2018 at 11:16am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Huh. Y'know Greg, I was certain I had heard it on the show. Of course, I should know by now that relying on MY memory is like relying on a cardboard boat... :D
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John Byrne

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Posted: 16 February 2018 at 11:45am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

The Kirk(man) is correct -- tho it was heavily implied, if one compares Kirk to his "contemporaries".
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 16 February 2018 at 1:07pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

tho it was heavily implied, if one compares Kirk to his "contemporaries".
++++++++

Yeah, I was gonna say that very thing in my last post, but felt it was pretty obvious. If you’re paying attention, all of the other Captains, Commodores, etc. are a good degree older than Kirk.

As noted, there are many elements which have become “fanon”—accepted by the fandom, but never seen or mentioned onscreen. Things like the generally-accepted stats of the Enterprise and her sister ships (the Constitution class name, most of the ships’ registry numbers, etc.), McCoy’s daughter and divorce, etc. Some of these elements came from later works and others from the cast/crew and/or fans/TREK licensed fiction writers (such as Uhura and Sulu’s first names).

Some elements (like Kirk being the youngest Captain in the fleet and McCoy’s daughter) were in the series bible, but never explicitly made it to screen (although McCoy’s daughter was mentioned in TAS).
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John Byrne

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Posted: 16 February 2018 at 1:34pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

I've been trying to make a story come together with McCoy's daughter.
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 16 February 2018 at 11:07pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

This tangent has me thinking. Many bits of lore (from both outside sources and general pop-culture’s misreading of the show’s original content) have attached themselves to TOS. So much so that a lot of people seem to have forgotten how to just watch the show and imagine what the creators originally had in mind.

JB alluded to the dialogue in “Where No Man Has Gone Before” which people have used as evidence that Kirk had commanded a ship prior to the Enterprise. Now, it should be noted that THE MAKING OF STAR TREK’s biography section on Kirk mentions that he did indeed command a small cruiser prior to taking command of the Enterprise. I dunno offhand if the series bible also references this idea, but I find myself wondering if the TMOST bit was based on a misreading of the dialogue, or if Sam Peeples (either on his own, or perhaps via prodding/rewriting from Roddenberry and company) really did intend for that to be the case (despite it not being the simplest reading of the dialogue’s intent).

A good number of elements have been interpreted, misinterpreted, and reinterpreted, over the years, sort of like a game of “Telephone”. Me, I always try and suss out the meanings which the creators were driving at during production, rather than allowing retcons and later iterations to seep in. 

Really, there’s an entirely different version of TOS in the minds of fans who grew up with the spin-offs, which retconned certain aspects of those shows (such as the technobabble) into the parent series. And now, with STD, Pike’s Enterprise herself has been redesigned (rather hideously, I might add, despite being far more faithful to Matt Jefferies’ version than was the Abramsprise) to fit the new show’s aesthetic. Of course, all prior recreations of the Constitution class exterior and interiors (in TNG, 1992; DS9, 1996; ENT, 2005) were extremely faithful to the original look. Which meant that TOS—as we saw it—was still considered canonical. Now, we’re left to assume that STD is telling us that the reimagined ship is what it always “really” looked like. Because that goofy, cheesy, 1960s crap is just too laughable for a modern, enlightened 2018 audience.

So, there’s TOS, the alternate TOS which exists in fans’ heads as a result of retcons, spin-offs, and misinterpretations, the CGI Remastered version of TOS (which did tweak and retcon some things, here and there), and now STD’s reworking of both the aesthetics and many details of the overall canon itself. 


Edited by Greg Kirkman on 16 February 2018 at 11:10pm
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