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Topic: Patrick Stewart To Star In New ‘Star Trek’ Series As Jean-Luc Picard Post Reply | Post New Topic
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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security

Robotmod

Joined: 16 April 2004
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Posted: 10 August 2019 at 1:23am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

 Rob Ocelot wrote:
The show seems to be coming together well and the producers seem to know where they want to focus and what they want to accomplish, in contrast to other series where two seasons in they still seem to be throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks.

I get it.  You're being clever here.  Talking about DISCOVERY without really mentioning it by name.  But we'll take this out into the open.  Yes the first season was catch as catch can (finding themselves as TNG did its first season and DS9, Voyager and Enterprise did before it) but the second season certainly was not.  No matter your personal feeling about it (and it's legion, just read the thread), it was absolutely not "throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks".  DISCOVERY has a purpose, moved toward that purpose in S2 and ended with a clear goal.  It was neither haphazard nor random despite what you wish to make it out to be.  

And I'll second Peter's reply above: is PICARD really the show everyone wanted to watch or the one you, Rob Ocelot, wanted all along?  Big difference, doubly so when you presume your own personal opinion is held by the majority.  
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Rob Ocelot
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Posted: 10 August 2019 at 9:00am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

I was alluding the last few series and not singling out DISCO, hence why I didn't mention it by name.   No secret agenda there Matt, but if you are intent on finding windmills I'm sure you're going to see them no matter what people write.  

If I could put the following in bright red flashing letters with plasma flames I would.

ATTENTION MATTHEW REID: THE FOLLOWING IS SOMEONE ELSE'S OPINION ON A DISCUSSION FORUM.

*VOYAGER lost it's way very quickly and never really recovered.

*ENTERPRISE seemed to be stabbing around trying to simultaneously be a prequel plus a time travel/war story, and (oddly) trying to distance itself from being STAR TREK (including dropping the name initially).   It sorta recovered from that but it was too little, too late.

*DISCOVERY made some of the same moves that ENT did:  The prequel premise and now they are already mining alternate realities and another time travel/war from the future.  They wanted to show the Klingon-Federation war but instead were only interested in the start and the finish of it which was dissappointing.   I did think season 2 was a huge improvement but now they are ditching the prequel elements (at least for the time being) and sending the ship into the future.   How in the hell is that not all over the place?   Even our esteemed forum namesake will tell you that time travel and alternate universe stories are the last things you should be pulling out of the toolkit.   A lot of the power of those stories comes from the audience knowing the characters well enough that the time travel or universe swap has some meaning.   With characters you hardly know or care about it sort of falls flat.  

But I digress.  I thought this was a PICARD thread but clearly even our forum moderators have trouble keeping their own discussions on point much less moderating the discussions of others.

So, to get back on track:


 QUOTE:
And I'll second Peter's reply above: is PICARD really the show everyone wanted to watch or the one you, Rob Ocelot, wanted all along?  Big difference, doubly so when you presume your own personal opinion is held by the majority.
  

Oh FFS, is it really coming down to picking at wording?  Seriously?

Yes, I'm pretty excited for PICARD.  People I've chatted with both professionally and casually appear to be pumped for it as well (though I'm not a mind reader but I'll take their verbal comments at face value).  The majority of the forum chatter (both here and other places) seems positive and even the mostly-cynical geek press aren't trashing it.   I've read a few misgivings from some about retreading old characters but that doesn't dominate the discussions I've read.   So, at least on paper PICARD is shaping up to be a series that people are anticipating.   How long have fans been asking for new post-NEMESIS stories?  Twenty years?

So yeah, excuse me for interpreting the overwhelmingly positive vibes for the show as something people actually want to watch.

Sheesh...




Edited by Rob Ocelot on 10 August 2019 at 9:02am
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Jim Muir
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Posted: 10 August 2019 at 10:41am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

So Hugh is in it now? The humanised Borg guy?

It’s a shame, I was really looking forward to this show when it was first announced, now every new reveal turns me off it more and more. I don’t mind the odd callback to the original show, but that guestlist so far ... I was really hoping Picard would plot it’s own furrow.

But it really is TNGs Greatest Hits.

—edited to add—
Just read the few posts before this.. Robert Picardo might be in it?! Wow, really? Nice guy and everything, but this just depresses me. Turns out the Star Trek universe is even smaller than the Star Wars one!


Edited by Jim Muir on 10 August 2019 at 10:47am
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Rob Ocelot
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Posted: 10 August 2019 at 11:52am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Jim, the creators are saying that we shouldn't expect TNG II or TNG Redux.    

I get the feeling the majority of the old cast returning are cameos. Frakes has said he's only in two episodes and both appearances aren't the meat of the story.   Spiner costs too much to be a cast regular (I'm sort of half-joking about this).  We've curiously heard nothing about Michael Dorn who has been the most vocal proponent of new televised post-TNG stories for quite a while now.

You have to expect at least a few old cast appearances as glue to bring in the wider audience who might be only superficially familiar with TNG.  I'm reasonably sure a good amount of STAR TREK fans are going to be watching, just on the draw of seeing Stewart in the role again but is that enough to sustain the show?

Del Arco is at least an interesting casting choice because Hugh is somewhat of a minor TNG footnote and in some ways a prototype for characters such as Seven and Icheb.  It seems like he's a vital part of the story they want to tell.  There's some relevance for Picardo's appearance too as his character is not only the most experienced in dealing with the surgical and cosmetic issues surrounding removal of Borg implants (not to mention the psychological issues with disconnection from the hive mind and reintegration into soceity) but the holo doctor himself had to fight for the right to be recognized as a sentient life form which has additional resonance with Data's story.  For all we know Picardo is appearing as Dr Zimmerman and not the holo doctor.

I agree that too many old cast appearing might spoil it or take attention away from telling a good story.   It seems to me that the creators are at least conscious of the balance they need to strike between pushing the TNG era into new territory and fan pleasing.  That they even felt to mention they aren't trying to wholesale remake TNG speaks volumes to me.   YMMV.

edit: 

Just wanted to add that I urge anyone to read up on Jonathan Del Arco as a person and in particular about how Patrick Stewart helped him through some rough times while he was on TNG.   STAR TREK has always championed their casting choices both on and off screen for diversity and Del Arco's involvement with many worthwhile causes (GSLEN, particuarly) makes him a natural fit for modern STAR TREK.  Putting him back on screen with Patrick Stewart seems only fitting.


Edited by Rob Ocelot on 10 August 2019 at 12:18pm
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Bill Collins
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Posted: 10 August 2019 at 12:23pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

I met Mr Del Arco in the nineties, he was a lovely chap.
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Rob Ocelot
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Posted: 10 August 2019 at 2:13pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Speaking of who I'd like to see and not see in PICARD, if I had to pick and choose:

I'd love to see:

*Alexander Siddig (Siddig el Fadil) as Julian Bashir.  There's some relevance to the main PICARD storyline with the augments (technically second class citiziens within the Federation) being exploited by Starfleet during the Dominion War and their inability to live within the constraints of Federation society.   Dr. Bashir is their most visible spokesperson and an augment himself.   Plus, Siddig has become quite a formidible actor in the intervening decades.   I'd love to see him in STAR TREK again.

*David Warner as Gul Madred.  'Nuff said, but only if there's sufficient meat in the script to warrant it.   Some of the after story with Madred has been told in spin-off media but it would be nice to see some of it formally on screen.   I suspect Madred may have moved up the food chain into politics.

*Avery Brooks as Ben Sisko/The Emissary.  I know this one is contraversial but I consider Sisko (along with Garak) one of the people indirectly responsible for the current crumbling state of the Romulan Empire.  The deceptive means by which the Romulans were allied with the Federation should have far reaching consequences if the real story ever got out.   It would be nice (but not required) to have some better closure to Sisko's story, including the fate of his son and daughter.  Plus, Sisko still has some unresolved issues with Picard.

Who I don't really care to see in PICARD:

*Denise Crosby as Sela Yar.   Kind of a one-note villian that really didn't contribute much.   Not a good excuse to bring Crosby back, IMO.

*Dwight Schultz as Reginald Barclay.   I think Barclay has been abused and overused in his post-TNG apperances.

*Will Wheaton as Wesley Crusher.   I know Wheaton would be absolutely keen on appearing but I think there has to be a good reason for the character to be there.

*John DeLancie as Q.  Same as Wesley, I think there needs to be sufficient need for the character to appear other than as an obligatory appearance or cameo.   Personally I think PICARD is going to be a more introspective and smaller scale series.   Q doesn't really have a place in that narrative, IMO.

I'm neutral on LeVar Burton.   I think he's a fine actor but I'm not particularly yearning to see Geordi again, especially since his post-TNG appearances were pretty bleh.   McFadden I can give or take depending on how relevant Beverly is to the story in PICARD.   We've seen alternate or possible futures where she's his wife so there's that.   Perhaps that's best left up to people's imaginations.


Edited by Rob Ocelot on 10 August 2019 at 10:09pm
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 10 August 2019 at 4:04pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Just read the few posts before this.. Robert Picardo might be in it?! Wow, really? Nice guy and everything, but this just depresses me. Turns out the Star Trek universe is even smaller than the Star Wars one!

——

We have already seen Seven of Nine. Plus Barclay worked with the Doctor on the Pathfinder project to bring Voyager home. I mean I understand what you are saying, but it’s weird to point out a character that only has one degree of separation from Picard to complain about it. 
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Jim Muir
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Posted: 10 August 2019 at 5:04pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Sorry Mike, I wasn’t clear - I’ve nothing against Barclay or Robert Picardo... or anyone for that matter. My ‘complaint’ is the mining of any and all, familiar Star Trek characters to sell this show.
I was quite looking forward to see where Picard was going to go. 

Turns out it was boldly going everywhere he’s been before.
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 10 August 2019 at 5:08pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

I’m not expecting these appearances to be any more than minor cameos. An acknowledgment of where old faces ended up, but not central to the themes or the plot. 
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Brian Miller
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Posted: 10 August 2019 at 5:10pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

Worf dammit!
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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security

Robotmod

Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 33221
Posted: 18 August 2019 at 3:06am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

 Rob Ocelot wrote:
 ATTENTION MATTHEW REID

The very least, and I mean VERY LEAST, you could do when addressing me is get the spelling of my last name correctly.  No upstanding Reed ever spells it with an "I".  Jesus Christ, man.  We're not Neanderthals!  
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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security

Robotmod

Joined: 16 April 2004
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Posted: 18 August 2019 at 3:21am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

 Rob Ocelot wrote:
 I thought this was a PICARD thread but clearly even our forum moderators have trouble keeping their own discussions on point much less moderating the discussions of others.

Ouch. Burn! 

Far be it for me to intertwine discussions of Trek series in a way that, shockingly, you have throughout this forum, Rob.  Wow.  Forgive me for doing what you've done in basically every Trek thread.  

My bad.  


 QUOTE:
So yeah, excuse me for interpreting the overwhelmingly positive vibes for the show as something people actually want to watch.

Same could be said for DISCOVERY.  Yeah, I know.  You hate it and that allows you to be blind to the joy others get from it, but that doesn't make it any less real.  At the end of the day, it's your personal experience that you want to try and make manifest to the rest of fandom as if you speak for us all but, in reality, you don't.  That doesn't stop you, however, as you'll continue to write and post as if you do.  

THAT'S my problem with your posts, Rob.  You speak as if you are the authority and anyone that disagrees with you doesn't understand the "true essence" of ST.  As if you have a firm grasp on what it means and anyone who disagrees with your view is wrong or misguided or unable to fully understand what you perceive to be purely black and white.  

Sorry.  Hard pass.  

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