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Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 11926
Posted: 05 July 2019 at 5:32pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

The box office success of these movies isn't irrelevant, David, I'll grant you that, but it doesn't automatically trump discussion of the quality of the treatment of the characters and the universe in which they exist. I do actually think Marvel Studios has done a good job of juggling so many films, still maintaining a continuity and telling entertaining stories. But more fidelity to the source and less change (driven, it seems, by the contracts with the actors) would, I think, be to their benefit.

Edited by Peter Martin on 05 July 2019 at 5:34pm
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John Byrne

Imaginary X-Man

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 116914
Posted: 05 July 2019 at 5:41pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Box office. Hm. Who had the biggest “box office” in comics a while back?

Oh, right. Rob Liefeld. Quality we can count on.

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David Miller
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 2196
Posted: 05 July 2019 at 6:02pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

If someone tweeted that comparison to Taika Waititi he'd probably be thrilled. 
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Rick Whiting
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 22 April 2004
Posts: 1942
Posted: 05 July 2019 at 10:07pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

The Last Jedi was a huge box office hit, but a lot Star Wars fans complained about how the characters were portrayed in the film and the overall story. Disney, of course, did not listen to those complaining fans. However, it is rumored that the lackluster toy and merchandise sales and the box office failure of Solo has prompted Disney to do an about face and make significant changes and rewrites to The Rise OF Skywalker. They even brought George Lucas back to help work on the film. So in the larger scheme of things, a huge box office is only part of what determines a films success.
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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security

Robotmod

Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 33180
Posted: 07 July 2019 at 12:16am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

 James Woodcock wrote:
The Blip is a bad name. What was wrong with the Snap?

Nothing...but how many people on Earth knew that it was a literal "snap" by Thanos that made half the population disappear?  .0001%  So why would they have ever called it a snap?  
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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security

Robotmod

Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 33180
Posted: 07 July 2019 at 12:25am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

 Greg Kirkman wrote:
The MCU has been criticized for being formulaic, but now it seems that they're diving into comedy which seems tonally inappropriate. And, more importantly, they're starting to trowel in the sort of identity politics which are killing so many other franchises. Not a good sign.

So you plainly state that you'll not watch FFH but feel entirely sure of yourself that what you've written (quoted above) is what the film is all about including, I might add, a dig about "identity politics" that the film doesn't show a single shred of engaging in but you feel hell bent on forcing into the discussion. 

Typical, Greg.  Typical.  
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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security

Robotmod

Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 33180
Posted: 07 July 2019 at 1:09am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

 Rick Whiting wrote:
So in the larger scheme of things, a huge box office is only part of what determines a films success.

That's THE ONLY determination for the success of a film.  Fifty to a hundred years from now people won't give two shits about the Star Wars debate, if they brought Lucas on board to "fix" THE RISE OF SKYWALKER, how well the toys sold or a thousand different questions or speculations fans want to hurl at a film some just want to take down. It's all about how much the movie made and THE LAST JEDI made a ginormous amount.  

Getting to the "founder", Lucas fucked up the prequel movies, so he's not the savant some want to make him out to be. How short is our collective memory?  The only, and I mean ONLY, determination of success is the $$ a film makes.  Note that I'm not talking quality here, only that success in business comes down to dollars and cents.  In that, THE LAST JEDI exceeded expectations.  So too did AVATAR, a film I actively hate, as well at TITANIC, a rotten film.  But that doesn't mitigate their respective successes.  The money those films made MAKES them a success despite what you or I think of them.  We may want to have a larger esoteric discussion of "success" but that doesn't change the fact that they are, on their face, successful films.  It just doesn't. 
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David Allen Perrin
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 15 April 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 2766
Posted: 07 July 2019 at 7:14am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

The Blip and The Snap are two totally different events.

The Snap: Thanos wipes out half of all life.  People may be aware of this because the surviving Avengers probably told everyone what happened and who was responsible....and HOW he did it.

The Blip: Hulk brings back everyone who was ‘snapped’....albeit 5 years later.




Edited by David Allen Perrin on 07 July 2019 at 7:17am
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Shaun Barry
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 08 December 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 6170
Posted: 07 July 2019 at 10:10am | IP Logged | 9 post reply



Apparently, anyone who had any issues with supposed "identity politics" stayed away in the dozens.

:P




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Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 11926
Posted: 07 July 2019 at 10:23am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

Largest six-day record for a Tuesday opening is not the most hotly of contested records.
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Tyler Kloster
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 25 November 2006
Posts: 169
Posted: 07 July 2019 at 11:31am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

Apparently, anyone who had any issues with supposed "identity politics" stayed away in the dozens.

***************************

Hey, come on, FAR FROM HOME is going to take at least a full week to outgross the entire domestic box office of AMAZING SPIDER-MAN 2. Marvel must be in a full-blown panic at this rejection.
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Rick Whiting
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 22 April 2004
Posts: 1942
Posted: 07 July 2019 at 12:24pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

That's THE ONLY determination for the success of a film. Fifty to a hundred years from now people won't give two shits about the Star Wars debate, if they brought Lucas on board to "fix" THE RISE OF SKYWALKER, how well the toys sold or a thousand different questions or speculations fans want to hurl at a film some just want to take down. It's all about how much the movie made and THE LAST JEDI made a ginormous amount.

Getting to the "founder", Lucas fucked up the prequel movies, so he's not the savant some want to make him out to be. How short is our collective memory? The only, and I mean ONLY, determination of success is the $$ a film makes. Note that I'm not talking quality here, only that success in business comes down to dollars and cents. In that, THE LAST JEDI exceeded expectations. So too did AVATAR, a film I actively hate, as well at TITANIC, a rotten film. But that doesn't mitigate their respective successes. The money those films made MAKES them a success despite what you or I think of them. We may want to have a larger esoteric discussion of "success" but that doesn't change the fact that they are, on their face, successful films. It just doesn't.

____________________________


True. However, aren't the Star Wars movies a special case since it's not just not the box office success of the movies that matter? I also mentioned in my post about Solo flopping at the box office. I'm talking about the long term future of a franchise that expands across many different areas of the entertainment media and merchandise.

As for Lucas and the prequels, I liked the prequels. Unlike some a lot of Star Wars fans, I don't see the Star Wars movies as some form of high art or as a "mature" intelligent serious sci-fi story. The Star Wars movies are kids movies that can be enjoyed by people of all ages. So I didn't have high expectations for the prequels or any of the other SW movies that were released after the original trilogy. All of the SW movies have their problems and faults in regards to the plot of the films, so I judge each movie on it's own merits.
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