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Topic: Et tu, Moira!? Or...what makes a mutant - SPOILERS Post Reply | Post New Topic
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John Byrne

Imaginary X-Man

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 118003
Posted: 14 August 2019 at 10:09am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Juggernaut? He’s not a mutant.

______________________

Blame Chuck Austen for that one.

••

I'd be happy to, but with aliens, demons, vampires, space pirates, interdimensional Conan wannabes and a host of other things he brought in when I wasn't there to stop him, Chris opened that door long before Austen arrived on the scene.

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Kevin Sharp
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 09 December 2007
Posts: 316
Posted: 14 August 2019 at 10:25am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

So the timeline Chris and I worked in is..... gone?

***

I don't want to jump to definitive conclusions based on reading 1/3 of a series, but the Uncanny team is specifically shown in only one timeline. In every other, Moira makes different choices (e.g. joining Magneto or Apocalypse instead of Xavier) which lead to different outcomes.

What's still unclear is whether these are all parallel realities or whether the world entirely resets... which would be a hell of a "mutant" power on her part.


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Juan Gomez
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 08 August 2019
Posts: 25
Posted: 14 August 2019 at 10:29am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

"So the timeline Chris and I worked in is..... gone?"

I have a different interpretation, in all honesty, but at this point nobody can say for sure, because the story is not revealing all the cards yet. Mind you, that doesn't mean we can't discuss.

I think we're meant to assume, at least so far, that the ongoing storyline in the "present" is following the Marvel Universe as we already knew it. This might change upon subsequent reveals, but it's what I'm working with.

I don't think the entire universe as a whole is being reset every time Moira dies. Multiple lives or timelines can co-exist. My current impression is this: similar yet not strictly identical events will always happen up to the specific points where certain divergences are introduced.

Unless we are told otherwise, I think the implication is major events like the Byrne-Claremont run still happened, at least during all of Moira's lives that are compatible with it. We just don't need to see every single instance.

There's also the whole "killing Hitler" paradox to keep in mind, I'd say.


Edited by Juan Gomez on 14 August 2019 at 10:34am
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John Byrne

Imaginary X-Man

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 118003
Posted: 14 August 2019 at 10:34am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Fixed moments in time. She IS a Time Lord.
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Juan Gomez
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 08 August 2019
Posts: 25
Posted: 14 August 2019 at 11:10am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Well, at least in that one respect there is a resemblance. It's a lot more limited of an ability in scope though, based on what little we've seen. Either way, I think there's a high chance that her truly last life will be used to set things back to normal, in a manner of speaking, when the run ends.

Regarding Grant Morrison's New X-Men run...he's still a controversial subject even to this day, but I would say that his popularity wasn't only press hype. A lot of new readers came in at the time too. He made a name for himself over at DC, both before and after his Marvel years. I didn't like his portrayal of Magneto, which was kind of a cynical take on the Kirby-Lee version, but the way it was retconned after he left came across almost as a joke.
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John Byrne

Imaginary X-Man

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 118003
Posted: 14 August 2019 at 11:18am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Not disputing, but what is your evidence Morrison brought in new readers?
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Dave Phelps
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3859
Posted: 14 August 2019 at 11:25am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

 Michael Roberts wrote:
Yes, he was using a character to serve a story that he wanted to tell instead of telling a story that served the characters.


That's not being fair. Tessa/Sage was a) a character he had written all the previous appearances for and b) pretty much a blank slate (beyond "worked for Sebastian Shaw"). She was open to be used however he saw fit.

 Shawn Kane wrote:
I agree felt more like a classic X-Men run. It helped that he had Cyclops, Wolverine, Kitty Pryde, and was allowed to resurrect Colossus.


IIRC, Joss said he was ASKED to resurrect Colossus. That whole "dead is dead" thing lasted just long enough to inconvenience a few people and then promptly went away to the point where I'm not sure there are any properly dead characters left.
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Juan Gomez
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 08 August 2019
Posts: 25
Posted: 14 August 2019 at 11:43am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

"Not disputing, but what is your evidence Morrison brought in new readers?"

Anecdotally, I ran into people who would fit that description during my own college years. Otherwise...I don't know if it's proper to drop some links to specific individuals who say it was among the first X-Men they read.

Here's only one example:

https://www.amazon.com/review/R9W0LQ3JD5EDR/ref=cm_cr_srp_d_ rdp_perm?ie=UTF8&ASIN=078513252X

Commercially speaking, the sales charts are available online but that is only an indirect measure. It's very hard to tell how many of those were "older" or "newer" readers though, I'll readily admit.


Edited by Juan Gomez on 14 August 2019 at 11:58am
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John Byrne

Imaginary X-Man

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 118003
Posted: 14 August 2019 at 11:59am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

A major problem with the marketplace as it has functioned for forty years now is that it is nearly impossible to tell WHO is buying.

With new titles/teams retailers for decades have skewed the numbers by over-ordering the first issue, then cutting orders on the second and third before actual sales on the first have even been seen.

Speculators and “collectors” further muddy the waters by purchasing multiple copies of the same issue.

As I pointed out to Chris Claremont when UNCANNY sales first topped 400,000 (they would go higher), when Stan and Jack sold 400,000 copies of FANTASTIC FOUR they could be reasonably sure it was to 400,000 customers/readers. The numbers on UNCANNY, tho, were a jumble of retail orders and fans buying different combinations of multiple issues. If Stan and Jack lost 50,000 customers it meant a drop of 50,000 sales. If UNCANNY lost 50,000 customers it could easily mean a loss of half the sales.

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Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12998
Posted: 14 August 2019 at 12:33pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

That's not being fair. Tessa/Sage was a) a character he had written all the previous appearances for and b) pretty much a blank slate (beyond "worked for Sebastian Shaw"). She was open to be used however he saw fit.

——

Tessa/Sage was a genius with a supercomputer brain AND a bad-ass ninja martial artist AND a bad-ass marksman AND had the power to supercharge other mutants’ powers AND a telepath AND was secretly one of Xavier’s first recruits and his trusted spy.  And also hot. Also maybe bisexual?

She came across as a catch-all for stories that Claremont wanted to tell with existing X-Men characters but couldn’t use for one reason or another. 
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Rick Whiting
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 22 April 2004
Posts: 1973
Posted: 14 August 2019 at 1:28pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

From what I observed, there were 4 types of readers who bought Morrison's New X-Men run.

1. Speculators who brought the book because Morrison was the current hot flavor of the month creator and because Marvel initiated their "no over print" policy to intentionally attract speculators (who Bill Jemas believed were an important part of the market). I should also point out that Morrison's run was frequently saddled with various sales boosting gimmicks like variant covers or the infamously falsely advertised 911 tribute issue.

2. Long time readers who were completest and who didn't want to drop the book because it would leave a whole in their collection.

3. Loyal die hard Morrison fans who would buy anything that he wrote. Some of whom may or may not have been new X-Men readers.

4. Lapsed X-Men readers who just liked what Morrison was doing on the book.
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Paul Gibney
Byrne Robotics Member.


Joined: 17 April 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 917
Posted: 14 August 2019 at 1:38pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Seems to have a lot of similarities to the Who Is Donna Troy? story.
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