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Adam Schulman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 July 2017
Posts: 1717
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| Posted: 17 August 2019 at 9:31pm | IP Logged | 1
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Really, Brian? MIRACLEMAN #1-15 has only the most superficial resemblance to the Dark Phoenix story.
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Brian Hague
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 November 2006
Posts: 8515
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| Posted: 17 August 2019 at 11:23pm | IP Logged | 2
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B-b-but characters flew and were powerful and some were mean! So... it was exactly the same!
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Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 15777
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| Posted: 17 August 2019 at 11:40pm | IP Logged | 3
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This is an interesting thread.
For me, what makes a writer interesting is, more often than not, how they execute an idea, not the idea in itself. Once in a blue moon, you do that get that genius that has both a great, new idea and implements it brilliantly, but more often that not, a good idea passes through a few iterations until someone delivers a perfect setting for that idea.
I think the Uncanny X-Men was probably richer for Claremont's magpie eyes than without. And the flights of creative fancy. For all the criticism of Claremont -- and, yes, a chunk seems deserved -- I feel that a lot of ideas (some bad, some good) is better than a staid status quo of let's not try it in case it is bad. Claremont had an enthusiasm that is vital to drive any project. And he wrote some pretty prose. Give the man his due.
I totally understand how creative tension cannot be sustained, but I do think that it sometimes tempers the excesses to deliver the best of both worlds.
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James Woodcock
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 7604
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| Posted: 18 August 2019 at 12:51am | IP Logged | 4
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I liked both Chris Claremont & Alan Moore but recognise both took concepts & adapted them.
Moore would lift things wholesale (Rorschach’s origin for example) & get accolades & then complain when people continued what he started. & that’s when I soured on the guy - constantly complaining when others did what he was doing because he somehow thought his stories should be immune. That I really don’t get
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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 35722
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| Posted: 18 August 2019 at 2:32am | IP Logged | 5
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Daniel Burke wrote:
| avengers endgame did this too. By ridiculing the concept of time travel in the movie, it almost forces the audience to forgive its use too. |
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Huh?
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Rob Ocelot
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 December 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 1231
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| Posted: 18 August 2019 at 2:53am | IP Logged | 6
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Peter Martin wrote:
| For me, what makes a writer interesting is, more often than not, how they execute an idea, not the idea in itself. Once in a blue moon, you do that get that genius that has both a great, new idea and implements it brilliantly, but more often that not, a good idea passes through a few iterations until someone delivers a perfect setting for that idea. |
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Exactly. Which is why I think the NEXT MEN version of 'superheroes-are-introduced-to-the-world-at-large-and-the-pu blics-reaction-to-them' has yet to be topped in any medium. Most post-9/11 iterations of that kind of story are coloured with a cynicism and negativity that really rings sour and doesn't balance the serious with the fun.
Edited by Rob Ocelot on 18 August 2019 at 2:54am
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132234
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| Posted: 18 August 2019 at 5:33am | IP Logged | 7
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WATCHMEN is an interesting lesson in how the pre-internet equivalent of meme can work its way into the general mindset. I would ask at cons what it was that fans loved so much about the series, and time and time again the answer was "It's so realistic!"To which my replay was "Yes, especially when they beam in the telepathic monster." Crazy thing was, I could never figure out just how this "meme" got started. Dave Gibbons' superb art had a lot to do with it, I'm sure, and civilians especially were surprised to find in comic books* concepts they did not normally associate with them--but, realistic? _______________________ * Yes, comic book. Despite multiple reprints in every form this side of stone tablets, WATCHMEN was originally published as a monthly comic.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 18 August 2019 at 6:00am | IP Logged | 8
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I really enjoy Alan Moore's mainstream stuff, but, yeah, everything he does is taking something established and twisting it.•• A few years ago I asked about this in my best non-snarky fashion. Being unfamiliar with his complete catalog, I did not know if Moore had ever done anything that was not a "pastiche" of some kind. It was depressing to see how many American readers offered up V FOR VENDETTA.
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Philippe Negrin
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 August 2007
Location: France
Posts: 2644
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| Posted: 18 August 2019 at 6:03am | IP Logged | 9
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People found it realistic in regard of how people behave and relate to one another as opposed to what hapened in trad super hero comics.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 18 August 2019 at 6:39am | IP Logged | 10
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People found it realistic in regard of how people behave and relate to one another as opposed to what hapened in trad super hero comics. •• I don't think making all the characters neurotic really qualifies as "realistic".
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Bob Harvey
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 November 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 210
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| Posted: 18 August 2019 at 7:00am | IP Logged | 11
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* Yes, comic book. Despite multiple reprints in every form this side of stone tablets, WATCHMEN was originally published as a monthly comic. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Many novels were originally published in installments, including Dickens' entire catalog. Or The Green Mile, for a more recent example. Watchmen was conceived as a single, self-contained story, so I've never understood your obsession with withholding the (admittedly dopey) title of "graphic novel" from it.
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Paul Gibney
Byrne Robotics Member.
Joined: 17 April 2004
Location: Canada
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| Posted: 18 August 2019 at 7:17am | IP Logged | 12
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The problem with the term ""graphic novel", to me, is that it implies a belittling of everything else. This is not "just" a comic book, mine is a "graphic novel"!
Especially when the term is both incorrect and arbitrary.
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