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Tim O Neill
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Joined: 16 April 2004
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Posted: 17 January 2020 at 6:35pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply



As a Dodgers fan, the ongoing stories of the Houston Astros confirmed
cheating during the 2017 World Series is a bitter pill to swallow. I followed
every game and was so disappointed that a team that good didn't go the
distance. I was upset then, but now I'm pissed off!

I don't think the MLB fines/suspensions for the manager and GM were enough,
so I am glad that the Astros let them go. But I don't think it's enough.

I think the players should face the music.


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Rick Senger
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Posted: 17 January 2020 at 8:19pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

I think so, too.  They are clearly just as complicit.  Even it it winds up biting my Red Sox in the ass (and Cora's firing does nothing to remove doubt) there's no place for cheating like this and anyone who is shown to have participated should suffer consequences, players included.
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Brian Floyd
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Posted: 17 January 2020 at 11:26pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Before I say anything else, I'm a Red Sox fan, and my parents are Dodgers fans. I was pulling for the Dodgers in 2017, and would have been just fine if they had won in 2018.

That said.....

How I think the Astros should be punished:

1. All players that were on the 2017 team fined every single penny they made from the postseason, including the World Series, plus $10,000. The money collected from the $10,000 fines goes to a charity of the Dodgers' choice.

2. Postseason ban for the upcoming season. As a consequence, any players on the team now that were not on the 2017 team can demand either an unconditional release or a one-year contract extension. The Astros have to honor the request. Also, any player from the 2017 team that's still on the team cannot be released or traded.

3. ALL awards from that season are stripped, from Gold Gloves, Silver Sluggers, etc, all the way up to (and especially) including Altuve's and Springer's MVPs.

4. Alex Cora = Banned for life for his involvement in both the Astros a nd Red Sox scandals.

Possible addition, but might be going too far:

5. The Astros lose home field advantage against any 2017 postseason opponents on their 2020 schedule; the Astros become the visiting team in their own stadium against those opponents.

Same punishments, I guess (except #5, obviously) for the Red Sox from the 2018 season. 




Edited by Brian Floyd on 17 January 2020 at 11:27pm
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Doug Centers
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Posted: 18 January 2020 at 6:38am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Sign stealing has been around as long as the game has. A player on second base may signal with an arm or touch a part of his body to let you know if the ball was coming in or outside, but if that player was suspected of that he may get a high hard one next time up.

The use of tech or outside coordination is crossing the "gamesmanship" line 10 fold. Knowing what actual pitch is coming can turn even a Cy Young pitcher into a little leaguer. The punishment should befit the offense.

Really nothing you can do about the stats, they are what they are, but wiping away any awards or titles I'm good with.
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Tim O Neill
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Posted: 18 January 2020 at 12:27pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply



I don't think we have seen something like this since the
Black Sox scandal, so I wonder how the players who cheated
will perform and react on the field.

Yogi Berra said : "Baseball is 90 percent mental. The other
half is physical," and I feel we will see just how much
truth is in his trademark twist-of-phrase. How can a
player who cheated face his teammates, face his opponents,
and face the crowd? It takes confidence to be in the MLB,
and something like this will get into their head. Or maybe
not - a Trumpian confidence requires no truth or
collegiality, so we may see some players turn into
cartoonist pro-wrestlers who feed on crowd enmity.

Yu Darvish joined the Dodgers during the 2017 season, and
his epic meltdown in that World Series got him off the
Dodgers and rocked his confidence. He seemed to find his
footing just at the end of this past season. There are
ramifications to this kind of cheating, and I think the
knife will cut both ways against the players who cheated.
They will be met with hostility at worst and skepticism at
best - how will that play with their heads?



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Brian Floyd
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Posted: 18 January 2020 at 3:10pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

I am betting that an usually high number of players that were on those Astros and Red Sox teams either face chin music or get intentionally hit by pitches next season. And I have no problem at all with that.

Edited by Brian Floyd on 18 January 2020 at 6:28pm
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Peter Martin
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Posted: 18 January 2020 at 8:14pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

The punishment was piss weak.The players -- as
complicit as anyone in this huge undertaking of
cheating the sport and the fans -- have literally
faced no penalty.The records still stand. The pitchers
still have the damage to their reputation and careers.
The Astros still keep the money earned from the post-
season. They keep the world series in the record
books. The players keep their bonuses.It is a case of
cold, calculated cheating. The antithesis of what
sport stands for. In the steroid scandal we had
individuals cheating for themselves. Here we have
teams working as an organised unit to cheat everyone.
It is more serious. I think Tim is right to say it is
more serious than anything going back to the Black
Sox.

Edited by Peter Martin on 18 January 2020 at 8:17pm
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Bob Simko
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Posted: 18 January 2020 at 8:17pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

I was going to mention Darvish, as well. This has to do a lot for his self-
confidence, which he still struggled to find even last season.
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 19 January 2020 at 1:13am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

I'm not a huge fan of the sport, but I am a sports fan in general (duh!) and even I think this is a terrible stain on the game.  As Tim notes, it's worse than the 1919 Sox scandal.  It's just terrible.  Why the fuck these guys did it and, more importantly, how they ever thought they would get away with it is mind boggling. If you have to cheat to win, it's no win at all.  Period.  End of discussion.
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 19 January 2020 at 1:20am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

I'll also say that although I don't think the punishment fit the crime, there is no way these managers and the GM are ever hired again by any other MLB team.  Their careers are effectively over no matter the actual punishment.  The sport will deal with them in the same way the NFL dealt with Ray Rice: no opportunity, no half-hearted chance at redemption.  Just gone. 
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Doug Centers
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Posted: 19 January 2020 at 5:27am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

Like Peter alluded to, it's worse than the steroid era. The players still had to use their own skill to make contact with the ball. This scandal literally put the ball on a tee. Pisses me off the more I think about it!

A.J. Hinch will be off suspension in a year and some teams will be drooling after him. He says he didn't know it was going on, hard to swallow that the Manager was unaware of the "mysterious" banging coming from his clubhouse and the odd monitor set up at the bottom of the dugout steps. 
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Brian Floyd
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Posted: 19 January 2020 at 6:12pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

There's a big, huge difference between Ray Rice and the managers and GM. I've said in the past plenty of times that I do not wish injuries on athletes, but after the video surfaced, I said - and meant - that he's the exception if he was ever allowed to play football again. You hit a woman like that in any circumstance that's not self-defense while she's armed with a weapon, you deserve a broken neck.

As far as baseball goes, it was my favorite sport until the steroid scandal broke out. Finding out the McGwire-Sosa home run record chase featured two cheaters broke it for me. If these players do not get punshed at all, there is absolutely no justice.

And ESPN should fire Jessica Mendoza for basically calling Fiers a rat, which makes it looks like she condones the cheating, but not exposiing it. What's worse is, she also works for the Mets.



Edited by Brian Floyd on 19 January 2020 at 6:14pm
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