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Bill Collins
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 26 May 2005
Location: England
Posts: 10937
Posted: 29 February 2020 at 7:59am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Still not enjoying it, some of the acting is still
wooden, the scripts are not up to scratch, the new
Master is more pantomime than menacing, Jodie`s Doctor
still comes across like a school teacher lecturing
toddlers. I also found it ironic that on certain forum
debates, the blind faithful who defended the
sledgehammer-subtle message that plastic is BAD, were
then wetting their knickers over the news of the latest
action figures!
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Steve De Young
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 01 April 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 3472
Posted: 01 March 2020 at 10:18pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

That tied up pretty much every loose end from Morbius to the master plan to the Hybrid.

Edited by Steve De Young on 01 March 2020 at 10:19pm
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Brian Floyd
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 07 July 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 6963
Posted: 02 March 2020 at 1:39am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

The Morbius stuff had already been explained by writers years ago, and should not have been shoehorned into the episode. And those images actually being past incarnations opens a huge pot hole in this episode AND Brain of Morbius: If the Doctor's memories have been tampered with, how could Four, let alone Thirteen, remember them? Its not like Morbius could have pulled them from the Doctor's brain if the Doctor didn't know about them.

Is it wrong that I like Ruth's TARDIS control room and the one in this episode better than any control rooms the Doctor has had in NuWho besides War and Twelve's? (Thirteen's is sadly my least favorite.)
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Greg McPhee
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Joined: 25 August 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 4331
Posted: 02 March 2020 at 4:27am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

I think I'm finished with Doctor Who. This episode was Chibnall undermining everything in the series.
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John Young
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 22 August 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3111
Posted: 02 March 2020 at 7:08am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

I am also done.  I hate "everything you know has been a lie."

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Steve De Young
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 01 April 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 3472
Posted: 02 March 2020 at 8:59am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Tastes vary, but here's why i loved this season:

This was the first season of NuWho that felt like a continuation of the classic series rather than an update.  What I mean is, in the past on NuWho, they've had the classic series in the background to pull elements from when they felt like it and reference and mine for villains.  But there was never any sense of continuity in terms of plot.  Under Moffatt, in fact, NuWho became self-referential to the point of almost being solipsistic.

But as a thought experiment, if the BBC had gone ahead with series 27, and if McCoy had left and Turner had gotten to cast a female doctor as he wanted, and they had gone ahead with the Cartmel masterplan, all of which could have happened, I think series 27 would have looked a whole lot like this season minus the budget.  Pretty much all of the elements of thise season were in place at the time of series 27, from the Master to the Matrix to hints at the Doctor being something 'more than just another timelord'.

Btw, I agree that this season had definite clunkers (looking at you Orphan 55), but that's not exactly out of keeping with the classic series either.  And while this season may undermine NuWho in certain ways, I can't see it as undermining the classic show since its basically picking up exactly where the show was headed when it was cancelled.
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David Miller
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Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 2326
Posted: 02 March 2020 at 10:15am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

I liked it, too. I'm not familiar enough with the old
series to adjudicate the relationship between modern and
classic, but overall this year was entertaining and fast
moving. I find Whittaker annoying, but less so than
David Tennant. The timeless child revelation is the very
definition of illusion of change.
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Andy Mokler
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Joined: 20 January 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 2759
Posted: 02 March 2020 at 11:15am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

I'm certainly curious to see where(if?) next season goes.  I gave up last year and keep hearing more and more people doing the same.  Chibnell and Whitaker are confirmed to be coming back but how long will the ratings drop continue? 

3.7M overnight viewers isn't too bad in a vacuum but the drop from where they were last year would indicate that fans are not enjoying what is being done.  As polarizing as this version has been, will it continue to halve itself?

I don't know if what I consider the real Who will ever come back but I'm resigned to hoping for a Bobby Ewing moment at this point.  Or She-Hulk moment.
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Brian Floyd
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Joined: 07 July 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 6963
Posted: 02 March 2020 at 11:23am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

This was a messed up version of the Cartmel Masterplan, which I would have liked a whole lot better than this.

I did not like the Doctor being the reason Time Lords can regenerate in the first place, no real explanation why his mind was wiped during the Brendan incarnation, and still not knowing where Ruth and the Master fall into their respective time lines.

Already cannot wait for the next showrunner. Chibnall is horrible.

Plus, let me point out a plot hole big enough to drive an 18 wheeler through: the images from Brain of Morbius. If the Doctor's mind was wiped.... and those memories are apparently gone, not buried....why would they be shown during Four and Morbius' battle if they were past Doctors and not past Morbius incarnations?
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Joe S. Walker
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 579
Posted: 02 March 2020 at 11:46am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

Re viewing figures, we all know what ever-more-entangled continuity and stories that depend on a knowledge of other, decades-old stories have done for comic sales.
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Steve De Young
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 01 April 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 3472
Posted: 02 March 2020 at 1:11pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

Plus, let me point out a plot hole big enough to drive an 18 wheeler through: the images from Brain of Morbius. If the Doctor's mind was wiped.... and those memories are apparently gone, not buried....why would they be shown during Four and Morbius' battle if they were past Doctors and not past Morbius incarnations?
----------------------------------------
First, Brendan was not an incarnation of the Doctor.  The Brendan material was the Doctor's real history put through a filter and hidden in the Matrix by Tecteun.  The rough outline of that history we've gotten is Timeless Child/The Other is found, becomes the source of regeneration for Timelord society while Rassilon forms the culture and Omega discovers time travel.  The Doctor goes to work for a renegade faction called 'the Division' which believes in meddling in time and cultures in order to do good and fight evil.  This puts the Doctor on the run from the Timelords.  The Division erases his memories to prevent them all from being found out.  The Timelord's revert the Doctor back to childhood as punishment and that child grows up to be Hartnell's Doctor.

People seem to have not connected the dots this season.  The way they erased the Doctor's memories was the Chameleon Arch.  Meaning, those memories are stored somewhere, presumably in the object represented by the faithful service clock on the desk that the shot kept lingering on.  When Ten used the Chameleon arch, he had flashes and intuitions from his memories that caused him to, for example, draw the faces of his former selves and write what he thought was fiction based on some of his adventures.  Presumably, the Doctor has these same 'leaks', hence Brain of Morbius uncovering those faces, the flashbacks this season, etc.  Hence also why, when he came of age, One adopted the name 'the Doctor', stole a Tardis, and went out to intervene and do good.  Hence also why the Timelords in the classic series were always threatening the Doctor with death for his interference....they had already tried a half measure and it apparently didn't work.

There's not really a major plot hole there.  It undermines Clara's nonsense, to which I say 'good'.  It messes with River Song's origin which also bothers me not at all.

Most importantly, though, it succeeds at exactly what the Cartmel masterplan was aimed:  It restores mystery to the figure of the Doctor which was all but gone.  All Moffatt had left was his 'real name'.  Give him one more season, he would have revealed it was a buzzing sound or something.  Now, we have no idea how many Doctors there have been.  We have no idea how ancient he is.  We have no idea where he originally came from.  We have no idea about a thousand other things.  What you're calling a bug, all of the new unknowns, I call a feature.
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Jozef Brandt
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 03 March 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 2553
Posted: 03 March 2020 at 12:12am | IP Logged | 12 post reply


What utter garbage. Chibnall is one of the most extreme "fan turned pro" disasters I've ever witnessed.

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