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Eric Doyle
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 302
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| Posted: 26 February 2020 at 8:27pm | IP Logged | 1
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Thus the inherent flaw in "the 1%." Not ALL of them cheated their way, embezzled their way, or inherited their way to the top. Some - I'll guess over 50% - EARNED their wealth.
How do you discern? Some people are good, generous, supportive, and don't deserve to get smashed. And of course, some do. How can we tell who should get what?
------------------------------------------------------------ ---------- I think it's more than "some", in fact I'd say most. In fact, most billionaires are Democrats. If someone takes risks, works hard, saves and earns a lot of money, what right does anyone have to take that money and give to those that don't?
Why do we think the Government running health care or any other thing is the best path? Does the Government come under budget on anything? Ask a Veteran if they love their health care (https://www.military.com/daily-news/2015/09/04/ig-report-30 0000-veterans-died-while-waiting-health-care-va.html) This along with his fuzzy math, praise of aspects of dictatorships, and his weird sexual essays are not going to play well with moderates.
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Brian Floyd
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 July 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 8348
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| Posted: 26 February 2020 at 11:20pm | IP Logged | 2
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On the national sales tax idea....no. I'm in one of the states with the highest sales tax already. Its something like 9.25%, but might as well be 10% in some cases. Unless there's a state sales tax cut included, or the tax does not apply to groceries and/or gasoline, no thanks.
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Steve De Young
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 April 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 3488
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| Posted: 27 February 2020 at 10:20am | IP Logged | 3
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Why do we think the Government running health care or any other thing is the best path? -------------------------------------- No one in this election is proposing government-run health care on the VA model. There is a huge difference between a single-payer system and a national health service.
And no one becomes a billionaire by working hard. Millionaire, absolutely. Billionaire, no. If you think wealth should be directly proportional to work, congratulations, you're a socialist. Socialism is a system in which workers control the means of production. You can start learning about this by understanding the labor theory of value. LINK |
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Steve De Young
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 April 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 3488
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| Posted: 27 February 2020 at 11:15am | IP Logged | 4
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If someone takes risks, works hard, saves and earns a lot of money, what right does anyone have to take that money and give to those that don't? -------------------------------------------------- If someone works hard and takes risks planning and executing a bank heist, we don't let them keep the money. If someone makes a fortune smuggling and selling narcotics we take the money. If someone engages in price gouging or hoarding during a time of civil strife, we take the money. We accept that, as a society, we can pass laws that say that if you acquire wealth through certain means, we have the right to reappropriate it for the good of society, regardless of how hard you worked or what risks you took in the process of acquiring it.
Since we can pass laws that require 100% forfeiture of wealth acquired through certain means, we can also pass laws requiring reappropriation of smaller percentages for the good of society. So if you acquire wealth through capital gains, we take 7% for the good of society. If you acquire it through wage earnings, its ~33%.
So, the fact that society has that right is one of the basic building blocks of civil society.
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Richard Knapp
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 June 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 29
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| Posted: 27 February 2020 at 11:33am | IP Logged | 5
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So you are basically equating hard work, innovation, and an entrepreneurial spirit to robbing a bank.
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Steven Myers
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5624
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| Posted: 27 February 2020 at 1:07pm | IP Logged | 6
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So you are basically equating hard work, innovation, and an entrepreneurial spirit to robbing a bank _____________________________
He never did that. There's a name for this type of attack, when you complain about something the person never said.
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Richard Knapp
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 June 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 29
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| Posted: 27 February 2020 at 1:16pm | IP Logged | 7
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That was my interpretation. It could be my interpretation was wrong.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132234
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| Posted: 27 February 2020 at 1:22pm | IP Logged | 8
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“If someone works hard and takes risks planning and executing a bank heist, we don't let them keep the money.”How is that NOT equating working hard with robbing banks? Please, enlighten me.
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Jason Czeskleba
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 April 2004
Posts: 4548
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| Posted: 27 February 2020 at 1:40pm | IP Logged | 9
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Eric Doyle wrote:
| Why do we think the Government running health care or any other thing is the best path? Does the Government come under budget on anything? Ask a Veteran if they love their health care (https://www.military.com/daily-news/2015/09/04/ig-report-30 0000-veterans-died-while-waiting-health-care-va.html) |
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A single payer system (such as Medicare for All) would not be "government run healthcare"... it would not result in the government taking over and managing all hospitals and clinics directly in the manner that they run the VA medical system. It would simply eliminate private insurance companies, with the result being that the government would directly pay private medical providers. There would continue to be choice and competition among private medical providers, and the elimination of the insurance middleman (and their profit-seeking) would likely bring costs way down.
That said, it's not something that is politically possible now, nor will it be anytime during Bernie Sanders' lifetime. Possibly in my lifetime (I'm 53) but I wouldn't even bet on that.
Edited by Jason Czeskleba on 27 February 2020 at 1:41pm
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Steven Myers
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5624
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| Posted: 27 February 2020 at 4:15pm | IP Logged | 10
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“If someone works hard and takes risks planning and executing a bank heist, we don't let them keep the money.”How is that NOT equating working hard with robbing banks? Please, enlighten me. ---------------------------------------------------- I don't see in any way that statement says "working hard is the equivalent of robbing banks." Where so you see that? The entire post was about how working hard at something does not mean you are entitled to not pay taxes. Taxes are levied to help society as a whole. Any excuse that "I worked hard so I shouldn't have to pay" is a fallacy. Attacking a position a person does not hold is a strawman argument. I think that's what I'm trying to say.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132234
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| Posted: 27 February 2020 at 4:22pm | IP Logged | 11
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Okay, the whole thing:“If someone takes risks, works hard, saves and earns a lot of money, what right does anyone have to take that money and give to those that don't? --------------------------------------------------If someone works hard and takes risks planning and executing a bank heist, we don't let them keep the money. If someone makes a fortune smuggling and selling narcotics we take the money. If someone engages in price gouging or hoarding during a time of civil strife, we take the money.” This is the internet game of arguing against a position by taking the most opposite extreme and equating them. Do you really want to play that silly game?
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Philippe Negrin
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 August 2007
Location: France
Posts: 2644
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| Posted: 28 February 2020 at 3:48am | IP Logged | 12
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My solution. Ban the Stock Market system everywhere on the planet, confiscate all the money and re inject into real business and industry.
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