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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 132282
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Posted: 20 February 2020 at 10:07am | IP Logged | 1
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BernieOf the people I know, very few are “comfortable” with the idea of America under a socialist government. And of those who profess to actually BE “socialists “..... well they seem very much to enjoy doing so while surrounded by the comforts of capitalism. The biggest fans of “socialism” seem to be those who have not experienced it first hand. (I do not present my experience as universal.)
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Steve De Young Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 April 2008 Location: United States Posts: 3488
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Posted: 20 February 2020 at 12:07pm | IP Logged | 2
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The right has successfully demonized the word socialism. In reality, most Americans are very comfortable with actual socialism. Very few want to abolish public education. Very few want to get rid of medicare, social security, or medicaid. Most of the people scared of Medicare for All don't know the difference between a single-payer system and the NHS in Britain which are completely different things. When that difference is explained, all of a sudden people are willing to sign on with Bernie's plan.
Socialism is just the democratization of economics and the removal of economic exploitation. So, no, most Americans aren't comfortable with the word. All the polling shows that they're very content with actual socialism in action, however. Ayn Rand devotees are, thank God, few and far between.
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Peter Martin Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 15797
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Posted: 20 February 2020 at 12:47pm | IP Logged | 3
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Although Bernie describes himself as a Democratic Socialist and promises policies that have socialist leanings, he isn't actually proposing an end to capitalism is he? He seems to be advocating a greater redistribution of wealth from the rich to the poor, with a focus on two key goals: free education and healthcare for all.
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James Woodcock Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 7616
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Posted: 20 February 2020 at 1:55pm | IP Logged | 4
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Everyone’s a capitalist until the banks crash. & then everyone becomes a socialist for a while.
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Bob Simko Byrne Robotics Security
Negative Mod
Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 5982
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Posted: 20 February 2020 at 2:05pm | IP Logged | 5
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"The trouble with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." - Margaret Thatcher
Sums up my thought nicely
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Steve De Young Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 April 2008 Location: United States Posts: 3488
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Posted: 20 February 2020 at 2:11pm | IP Logged | 6
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So, am I supposed to feel oppressed, I guess, because I get my electricity through a power co-op rather than from a for-profit corporation?
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James Woodcock Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 7616
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Posted: 20 February 2020 at 2:28pm | IP Logged | 7
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The trillions of dollars in debt that exist in capitalist societies suggests that they too end up spending other people’s money.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 132282
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Posted: 20 February 2020 at 4:36pm | IP Logged | 8
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Actually, it means they’re spending money they don’t really have.
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Marc Baptiste Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2004 Location: United States Posts: 3655
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Posted: 20 February 2020 at 5:08pm | IP Logged | 9
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I have to disagree with JB a bit on this. I think the OUTRAGEOUS deficits that capitalist societies run up ARE spending other people's money - future generations.
Marc
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Steven Myers Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 June 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5624
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Posted: 20 February 2020 at 5:12pm | IP Logged | 10
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Socialism definition:a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole
Is not even close to the policies of Bernie, who basically want to give more power to the common man by taking it away from the ultra-rich. If Bernie was advocating for ending private ownership of companies or such he wouldn't have my support.
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Wilson Mui Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 June 2004 Location: United States Posts: 4525
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Posted: 20 February 2020 at 6:46pm | IP Logged | 11
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I think Sanders made a great point last night about how it is the rich that live in a socialist society. They lobby the government for tax loopholes that benefit them personally and their businesses. They also are able to give low salaries because the government provides the assistance like welfare and food stamps.
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Rodrigo castellanos Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 July 2012 Location: Uruguay Posts: 1464
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Posted: 20 February 2020 at 8:25pm | IP Logged | 12
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Social democracies are not the same as communist regimes, not even remotely.
Unless you think of Germany, France, all of Scandinavia, etc. as communist regimes.
Having said that, and obviously looking from afar, Sanders is the only candidate that has a shot of beating Trump in the general election.
So that seems to be the choice: more Trump (I shudder just imagining the possibilities if he gets this kind of validation) or give ol´Bernie a shot.
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