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Neil Lindholm
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: China
Posts: 4722
Posted: 01 July 2020 at 10:47pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

The movie might have had an extra in it who had a bad thought about something in 1978. Better cancel it to make sure. 


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Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 13314
Posted: 01 July 2020 at 10:53pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

The movie might have had an extra in it who had a bad thought about something in 1978. Better cancel it to make sure. 

-----

Or we can cut the reactionary bullshit of white people trying to defend whitewashing and yellowface and just learn to be better by not doing that stuff anymore.
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Neil Lindholm
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: China
Posts: 4722
Posted: 01 July 2020 at 11:02pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

44 Disturbing Pictures Of China’s Cultural Revolution

'destroy "the Four Olds:" old ideas, old cultures, old customs, and old habits that it has said had been fostered by the exploitative rich to poison the minds of the people.'

China banned public shaming years ago since they know what it can lead to. In the west, people seem to revel in it. The worst is the grovelling apologies that people are forced to do if they want any hope of keeping their job and/or livelihood. 


Forced to step down and give out yet another grovelling apology, this time for liking tweets that did not agree with the current dogma. 

Wish I could post more but I am have a tough time maintaining my VPN. I guess the government over here is really cracking down hard, to avoid improper thoughts from infiltrating the masses. 
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David Miller
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 2360
Posted: 01 July 2020 at 11:27pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

"America's situation is not just totally comparable to Maoist China, it's even worse!"

Give me a fucking break.
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Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 13314
Posted: 02 July 2020 at 2:38am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

What Scarlett Johansson's Missing in the Representation Debate - Between the Scenes | The Daily Show
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John Byrne

Imaginary X-Man

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 120972
Posted: 02 July 2020 at 5:48am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

"Hamilton is not, by the common definition, colorblind. It does not merely allow for some of the Founding Fathers to be played by people of color. It insists that all of them be. This insistence is part of the play’s message that Alexander Hamilton’s journey from destitute immigrant to influential statesman is universal and replicable (and comparable to the life stories of many of the rappers who inspired Hamilton’s music). Obama, recently hosting the cast at the White House, gave the standard interpretation: 'With a cast as diverse as America itself, including the outstandingly talented women, the show reminds us that this nation was built by more than just a few great men—and that it is an inheritance that belongs to all of us.'"

Statements like this only add to my confusion. Are there no stories to tell ABOUT people of color? The history of this Nation is, indeed, primarily about Rich White Men, but there are plenty of non-White, non-rich people who made significant contributions. Where are the musicals (and non-musicals) about them?

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John Byrne

Imaginary X-Man

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 120972
Posted: 02 July 2020 at 6:04am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

I find myself thinking of Dave Barry's humorous "history" of America. Presented in textbook form, after a few chapters he informed the readers that his funding was going to be cut unless he made more references to the contributions of women and minorities. So he started randomly inserting the phrase "Meanwhile, there were contributions by women and minorities."

After several of those, he ended with "Meanwhile, there were contributions by women and minorities, even though they had all the rights of kelp."

An important statement, couched in humorous tones. A reminder that there are many, many stories to tell of the struggles of "people of color".

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Michael Penn
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 11006
Posted: 02 July 2020 at 7:24am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

When I was a kid, we only spoke of The Founding
Fathers. It's only relatively recently that even
historians instead have begun to speak of the Founding
Generation or more simply The Founders. There were, of
course, Black Founders too -- men and women. We do not
hear too much about them. Does a production like
"Hamilton" effectively kill a putative production
(musical or not) about, say, Benjamin Banneker? I don't
know. I certainly hope not.

Still, perhaps "Hamilton" is different than, for example,
colorblind casting Iron Man or Scrooge or any white-as-
written character, where one might argue that making
Peter Parker black is either simplistically offensive to
black people or would require so much re-writing that you
might as well create a new character who is black from
the get-go and properly treat the character and the
audience as intelligent and truly colorblind. One might,
after all, always make a new fictional character.

But, whereas surely there were important non-whites who
built this country, there will, for example, always ever
be only one Father of our Country, and perhaps a
production like "Hamilton" reaches out in a non-
patronizing, non-condescending manner from its non-white
author to the audience entire, both white and non-white,
such that this Father, if cast as non-white, can be shown
to be all of "ours" in a way like no other?
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John Byrne

Imaginary X-Man

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 120972
Posted: 02 July 2020 at 7:41am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Shortly before I left Canada there was a production of THE FLYING DUTCHMAN with a Black singer as the Captain. This made headlines, of course, and the story was told that he had signed up with this particular opera company on condition that he would be allowed to play this part.

The Director of the company made what has become a fairly common justification, that it was all about the man's VOICE, not what he looked like. Fair enough, I thought. That really is what opera is all about.

But then, this same Director went on to talk about the sets and costumes, and how much effort had been put into historical accuracy. So it WAS about what things looked like?

As I have noted, some of my favorite performances have been on empty stages. Heck, I even helped design such a stage for a local theater group--just a raised black rectangle with steps down from the corners. (This was for a performance of MACBETH, with a mixed race cast and modern dress.)

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John Byrne

Imaginary X-Man

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 120972
Posted: 02 July 2020 at 7:42am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

Patrick Stewart famously presented a version of OTHELLO with himself in the lead, and all the other parts played by Black actors.

Where does this fall in modern interpretation?

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Michael Penn
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 11006
Posted: 02 July 2020 at 8:15am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

I was watching THE MAGNIFICENT SEVEN with my 12 year old
son the other day, feeling awkward that three of the main
Mexican characters were played by an American Jew, a
Russian Jew, and a German. Decades ago, nobody blinked an
eye. Now, this necessitates a conversation with the lad!
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John Byrne

Imaginary X-Man

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 120972
Posted: 02 July 2020 at 8:31am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Horst Bucholz must have seemed strange casting even back in the day. The first time I saw the movie I justified him as an immigrant who merely identified with the Mexican peasants. Until that line about Mexico being his country.

Still, a step up from Friedrich von Ledebur as Queequeg in MOBY DICK (1956).

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