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Topic: When to Stop Reading Superhero Comics Post Reply | Post New Topic
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Ben Herman
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 01 March 2020
Location: United States
Posts: 113
Posted: 30 March 2020 at 7:19am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Hi, Ted. Nice to be here.
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Ben Herman
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 01 March 2020
Location: United States
Posts: 113
Posted: 30 March 2020 at 7:39am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

I agree with JB and others here that you should drop the hobby when you can no longer accept its "rules."

…..

Grant Morrison once stated: "Kids understand that real crabs don't sing like the ones in The Little Mermaid. But you give an adult fiction, and the adult starts asking really f-ing dumb questions like 'How does Superman fly? How do those eyebeams work? Who pumps the Batmobile's tires?' It's a f-ing made-up story, you idiot! Nobody pumps the tires!"

Morrison is right... but (you knew there was a "but" coming right?) occasionally I do think that occasionally you can get a good story out of questioning the rules.  The question of 'Who pumps the Batmobile's tires?' was actually answered in the Batman: The Animated Series episode "The Mechanic," which I thought was a pretty good story.

The problem is that for every good, interesting story that comes from questioning the unspoken rules of the genre, you get at least a dozen really poor stories that are cringeworthy in their attempt to apply some sort of real-world logic to a fantasy scenario. That story from the Bronze Age were someone attempted to explain why no one realizes that Clark Kent is just Superman wearing a pair of glasses immediately comes to mind.

I guess that if you're going to one of those types of stories, you need to be really careful and think it through ahead of time to make sure you're actually creating a good story.

As for the perspective of the reader, it's funny, when I was in my teens and twenties, yeah, I did often question the "rules" because, honestly, I was an insecure geek and I desperately wanted other people to regard comic books as "serious" and "mature" rather than as "childish."

Now I'm 43 years old, and I honestly don't give a crap what other people think about my reading choices. So as an adult I'm a lot more accepting of the "rules" because I'm just reading this stuff to enjoy myself.


Edited by Ben Herman on 30 March 2020 at 7:43am
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Peter Martin
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Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 15728
Posted: 30 March 2020 at 8:52am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Kids understand that real crabs don't sing like the ones in The Little Mermaid
---------------------------------------------------
Exactly. Real crabs never sing in a calypso style. In my experience, they have a strong tendency towards old sea shanties.
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James Woodcock
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Joined: 21 September 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 7581
Posted: 30 March 2020 at 9:42am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Morrison is wrong.

A small contingent asks those questions, the rest just go
with the flow.

The problem is that people think they need to take note of
that small contingent when really, they should just be
ignored.
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John Byrne

Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132133
Posted: 30 March 2020 at 10:31am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

That “small contingent” has come to be a large part of the people running the show.
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Eric Sofer
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Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
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Posted: 30 March 2020 at 11:06am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

When to stop reading is not an aspect of age. If you don't enjoy them, don't read them. If you don't like horror movies, don't watch them. If you don't like arranging flowers... well, you get the idea.

You have to accept the genre and its tenets, especially if you're reading comics - or again, it's time to stop. Uniforms, crazy death traps, staying in the same city even though Lincoln NE has no super heroes, etc. "WHY" is a very awkward question.

I see it as a two headed hydra.* The readers shouldn't consider, for example, Galactus' helmet. But if there's a good story involving it (e.g., it allows him to maintain corporeal form in this universe), then that's worth telling. And yes, we should all remember Marty Pasko's story about Clark Kent's glasses. It was a great story and a good idea that just didn't work. Or Mopee being the one who gave the Flash his speed. A story about such elements can work very well. A reader prying into such is likely to be very disappointed.

In a sense, Crisis on Infinite Earths is just such a problem. Some writer or editor seems to have pondered, "Why are most of the super heroes based on Earth?" and from there... along with lacking imagination about Earth-1, Earth-2, etc.... we got the biggest problem DC ever created. (They've spent 35 years trying to fix it.)

Playing "What If" can be fun; Mr. Byrne has played it to great effect. Playing "How come?" is indeed probably the time to move on. Go watch some James Bond films and ask "Why?" at those, or some deep analysis about how he got so good. And watch how THAT house comes crashing down too.

It's fiction - NOT REAL. Take it as such and just enjoy it, kids.

*See, one day, a hydra was shaving, and he got a REALLY bad nick. Now he has to shave twice as long. Let that be a lesson. :P
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John Byrne

Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132133
Posted: 30 March 2020 at 12:07pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

And yes, we should all remember Marty Pasko's story about Clark Kent's glasses. It was a great story and a good idea that just didn't work

••

Marty maintains Julie Schwartz forced him to do that story.

+++++++++++++

Playing "What If" can be fun; Mr. Byrne has played it to great effect. Playing "How come?" is indeed probably the time to move on. Go watch some James Bond films and ask "Why?" at those, or some deep analysis about how he got so good. And watch how THAT house comes crashing down too.

••

There is a related parallel in the difference between "things are not always as they seem" and "everything you know is a lie".

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Eric Sofer
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Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 4789
Posted: 30 March 2020 at 12:24pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Mr. Byrne: "Marty maintains Julie Schwartz forced him to do that story."

I believe that absolutely. I don't blame the quality of the story, and have nothing about Mr. Pasko. It was a good effort that just didn't quite make it.

Perhaps I should have referred to "Superboy's Darkest Secret!" Or any of dozens others that just went too deep down the rabbit hole.
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John Byrne

Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132133
Posted: 30 March 2020 at 12:32pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Ah, yes.....

NOT A DREAM! NOT A HOAX! NOT AN IMAGINARY STORY!

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Michael Penn
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 12406
Posted: 30 March 2020 at 12:36pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply


 QUOTE:
When to stop reading is not an aspect of age.


But it could be a function of age. I can't recall asking
anybody else or even myself any fun-destroying questions
when I was 11 years old.
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Rick Whiting
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 22 April 2004
Posts: 2181
Posted: 30 March 2020 at 3:03pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

That “small contingent” has come to be a large part of the people running the show.

______________________________


And that small contingent has run the show into the ground. They have driven away the older readers (many of whom deserve to be driven away), but have also failed at attracting brand new younger readers.
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Wallace Sellars
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 01 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 17659
Posted: 30 March 2020 at 3:10pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Lifelong reader over here...
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