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Topic: Pike spin-off — STAR TREK: STRANGE NEW WORLDS Post Reply | Post New Topic
Bob Simko
Byrne Robotics Security

Negative Mod

Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5818
Posted: 16 May 2020 at 5:48pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Worst kept secret...and I can't wait.
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Shaun Barry
Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 08 December 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 6529
Posted: 17 May 2020 at 10:23am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

I'd give it a chance... if Akiva Goldsman and Alex Kurtzman weren't producers of current STAR TREK.  Those two are nature's way of saying "Do Not Touch."

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Michael Murphy
Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 06 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 218
Posted: 18 May 2020 at 12:04am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Anson Mount was great in Discovery so I am looking forward to this.

Unfortunately, it does carry some Discovery baggage. Discovery season one is decent sci-fi but crap Trek. Season two is much better than season one but it's not without it's problems.

What I have found works for me (your individual mileage may vary) is that I choose to believe that we now have 3 Star Trek "universes". The first, and my personal favorite, universe consists of TOS, TAS, TNG, DS9, Voyager and Enterprise. The second is the Abrams-verse and the third is the All Access universe. This allows me to enjoy them all to varying degrees and accept some of the more nonsensical changes that happened along the way.
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John Byrne

Imaginary X-Man

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 121058
Posted: 18 May 2020 at 5:20am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

What I have found works for me (your individual mileage may vary) is that I choose to believe that we now have 3 Star Trek "universes". The first, and my personal favorite, universe consists of TOS, TAS, TNG, DS9, Voyager and Enterprise. The second is the Abrams-verse and the third is the All Access universe. This allows me to enjoy them all to varying degrees and accept some of the more nonsensical changes that happened along the way.


A well made show should never require the audience to do some of the writing.

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Greg Kirkman
Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 12 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 15771
Posted: 04 June 2020 at 9:39pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

...y’know, I thought I was content with just posting a snarky video link, but I think I’ll actually say my piece and then leave it at that. I really can’t be bothered to argue—or even discuss—this stuff, anymore.

Here’s the harsh reality, folks. These franchises have been around for decades. Due to both the generation gap and the sheer volume of existing material, people can no longer agree on what the core elements of these properties are.

It’s been proven before that these franchises can be successfully reinvented for new generations. The prequels did not kill STAR WARS. STAR TREK ran continuously and with massive success on both TV and in theaters from 1987-2005. But that was because both George Lucas and the legacy team which began work with TNG were in charge. People who actually had an understanding of both the material and their fanbases, even when the execution wasn’t always the best. And they didn’t stoop to insulting their audiences.

Now, however, there are two inherent problems. 1) These properties are played out. With so much material already existing, it’s very difficult to come up with something truly fresh and new. So, we get the abysmal Disney Trilogy (a dumb, soulless, woke remake of the original STAR WARS trilogy) and both the Abramsized and Kurtzmanized bastardizations of TOS.; 2) These properties are now in the hands of hacks and ideologues who don’t understand or care about what they’ve been given, and are only using these franchises to make money and/or push their extreme sociopolitical agendas. It’s no longer about quality storytelling and characterization. Just explosions, tokenized, one- dimensional characters, and “smashing the patriarchy”, or some other such nonsense. STD is fronted with a blatant Mary Sue (and, as a bonus, she’s a long-lost relative of an iconic character people actually DO love), Starfleet is a now matriarchy, and there’s a guy in a friggin’ wheelchair on the ship.

And then there’s this utter bullshit—from the official STAR TREK website, no less—about Picard being “humbled” in his new series because of his white male privilege. This is the sort of nonsense which has consumed the entertainment industry. Tearing down iconic characters to score moronic political points.

If they just went off and did their own brand-new shows and characters, that would be one thing. But, no, due to a lethal combination of cash-grab nostalgia-milking, creative bankruptcy, and (as they see it) “problematic” earlier iterations, they have to go right to the core and reboot/rewrite/destroy those original iterations. Luke Skywalker is now a loser and a failure who is denigrated at every turn, and Force-Skypes himself to death so as to make MaRey Sue look better...while she steals all of his gear and accomplishments. Spock is turned into a dyslexic, singing basket-case who needs Mary Sue Burnham to teach him how to BE Spock. And so on. One affront to iconic characters, iconic stories, and beloved canon after another. Can’t wait until they recast James Kirk and take him to task for being a “toxic” straight white man with a healthy libido.

There is no respect, here. No intelligence, no art, no honor. We now live in a post-post-POST modern era of nerd culture. All of the sacred cows must be milked and then sacrificed on the altar of wokeness and greed. Stupid people crank out stupid products for stupid people, and dissent—in the form of legitimate criticism—is called out as “racist”, “sexist”, and “toxic”. The studios hate their core audience, and have no respect for what has come before. They are unable to create, so they co-opt and corrupt the works of the giants who came before them. They have gravely underestimated the passion and intelligence of the people who have loved these franchises through thick and thin, and the steep drop in both sales and popularity of said franchises is proof of that. But, because they are both ideologues and hacks, they will continue to double down, and will reboot, remake, recast, and rewrite our beloved mythologies to suit their greed and shortsighted agendas. 

And the damage is done. STAR WARS lies in ruins. DOCTOR WHO lies in ruins. Marvel and DC Comics lie on the edge of oblivion. It’s all burning to the ground, and it deserves to.

And the last gasp of anything resembling the real STAR TREK—the STAR TREK which valued true diversity, good storytelling, intelligence, and compassion—has been dead since 2005. Ever since then, it’s been the Bad Reboot and Secret Hideout crews exploiting TREK’s corpse with dumbed-down schlock and endless attempts to reboot and rewrite the characters and histories we know. Prequels on top of prequels. Parasites attaching themselves to beloved stories and characters to rewrite and demolish them. Standing on the shoulders of giants whilst pissing on their heads. Disgusting and unforgivable.

Well, no thanks. I’ve been done supporting this trash with my dollar for quite a long time. That’s all it takes. Just say “no”. Because any purchase at all is an affirmative vote for more of the same, no matter how much you like or dislike the product. I saw the writing on the wall long ago. The hype surrounding AbramsTREK ‘09 and THE FARCE AWAKENS were just the false euphoria created by snake-oil salesmen like Abrams and Kurtzman, who love their empty, soulless mystery (misery) boxes. Style over substance, politics over story, caricatures over characters.

I will never again spend a dime on any of these franchises. At least in their modern forms. Because the mythologies I love have been ripped to shreds, the fandoms have melted down, and their legacies have been destroyed. This is the era of The Franchise Apocalypse. Everything we’ve known and loved will die—MUST die—, and, hopefully, a new generation of talented creators will come along to build new mythologies to replace the ones we’ve lost. 

It’s over. They killed it. In case you hadn’t noticed, STAR TREK has become irrelevant. THE ORVILLE is better STAR TREK that any of this tripe coming out of CBS. Kids don’t know or care about STAR TREK. None of my younger friends or coworkers know about or watch the CBS streaming shows. BEYOND was a flop. The merchandise has dried right up, because licensors know that this franchise is a beached whale. The older fans are aging out, and young fans are not being successfully brought in to replace them and keep the brand healthy. The people making these shows lie and cheat and spend their time on social media attacking their core audience. Michael Chabon flat-out admitted to deliberately trolling fans with various story developments. Talented writers  like Walter Mosley (a black man), working in the STD writers’ room (which should be a “safe space” for free expression of ideas), are tattled on to Human Resources for using, in the context of a personal anecdote, words (“nigger”) not approved of by the woke collective now in charge of TREK.

“STAR TREK” now consists of garbage shows—hidden behind a paywall, no less—made by hacks who hate the fanbase they’ve inherited, and will do everything they can to trick them into parting with their money. In, say, five years, no one will care. They’re just going to continue salting the proverbial Earth with shows like this new one, which will absolutely go right to work on undermining, rewriting, and outright replacing TOS even moreso than has already occurred over the past decade. Assuming, of course, that this show is even made at all (...whatever happened to SECTION 31? Oh, right, it’s “in development”.). CBS All-Access likely won’t even exist in a year or two. They’ll just keep announcing new shows to project the illusion that all is well, and some may even get produced. But I don’t care.

There is no hope. The damage to these franchises and their fanbases is too extensive. For those who know what I refer to, we’re entering the final phases of the Geeker Gate, now. The current iterations of these franchises will come to an end, and the parasites who have destroyed them from the inside-out will then move on like locusts to the next healthy franchise. You know, like how, after killing both STAR TREK and STAR WARS, Abrams is now getting his sticky fingers into the DC movies over at Warner. Looking forward to SUPERMAN: FLYBY, anyone?

I’m just waiting to read all of the (unauthorized) books which examine the trainwreck. The best we can hope for is to learn from this disaster so that it never happens again.

This series announcement is desperation mixed with Kurtzman and his cronies asking TOS to bend over one more time, so they can both totally rewrite it and also make some more money off of it on their way out the door.

I’m done. Live long and prosper.

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John Byrne

Imaginary X-Man

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 121058
Posted: 05 June 2020 at 4:35am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

They paved Paradise, put up a parking lot..........
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Doug Centers
Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 17 February 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 4281
Posted: 05 June 2020 at 5:45am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

"The studios hate their core audience, and have no respect for what has come before."


I'm not sure if they "hate" them, in the studios eyes there's just not enough of that core audience. So they must adulterate, bend, stretch to reach as many patrons as possible.
All about the bucks baby!

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Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 13331
Posted: 05 June 2020 at 6:11am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

I realized long ago that just because I loved a franchise, it doesn’t need to continue to be made for me. I may not like the direction something has gone (hi X-Men!), and I can hold the opinion that it might gather a bigger audience if it focuses on the things that originally drew me to it. But I’m not the gatekeeper of that franchise, and if it moves on without me, the healthiest thing is to move on from it (bye X-Men!) and cherish the stuff I did enjoy.

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