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Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4495
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| Posted: 09 April 2021 at 9:50pm | IP Logged | 1
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Chauvin's defense being able to ask hypothetical situations of a medical witness today and get responses is definitely beyond the pale. Was there even an objection by prosecutors or is it not allowed? Could Mr. Floyd possibly if he hadn't been kneeled on but panicked while having fentanyl in his blood have a heart attack? Yes, theoretically. So that's a yes, he could've had a heart attack. I mean come on! Do they allow this ridiculous theater in banana republic courts? Before I get talked down to and talked over again, I mean I have had someone lecture me, a long standing client and financial supporter of the local women's sexual assault center, here about my insufficient outrage or seriousness towards sexual discrimination allegations about a television producer... can we just remember that Canada did not invade and occupy another country based on falsified evidence and deception? That Canada did not invite Russian oligarchs on a banned list into a top executive building and share classified information with them? That Canada does not protect firearms and weapons manufacturers from litigation? That Canada does not routinely refuse to abide by final arbitration rulings in trade disputes started overwhelmingly by U.S. industry lobbyists based on falsehoods? That Canada didn't pressure another country into extraditing a third party foreign business head with no real plans of ever helping to achieving that never minding a real prosecution case,but leaving the extraditing agreement upholder left to face retaliation on it's own for multiple years?
Assuming one does care about their country, and about actually protecting vulnerable groups, and not just hollowly showing off how more absolute one is to everyone else, then how many days of this bizarre trial of just one of the four officers will it take to admit this is not much of a system to have much trust in? I pretty much stand by what I have expressed as neither ridiculous, negative, or intended as simplistic attack. Canada has historically been more of a nation of laws and not mobs. Canada's growth was not expansion at gunpoint of mobs of settlers moving in at the expense of Native Americans and Spanish-Americans. Mounted police preceeded development, not something thrown in as an afterthought ala a General Custer nor a pretense of justice after the fact with extremely biased hanging judges. Our justice system is not nearly as bent by money, power, celebrity or class, nor as political, and I think there are things that can be learned from it that would benefit the U.S. greatly just as Canada can find other systemic solutions and innovations from the older land of opportunity next door. Constitutional law was perhaps one we should not have tried on, but we did; our getting a Canadian constitution has so far been more a boon to regional grievances and a make work for lawyers tool than a needed enshrining of individual rights, nor has U.S. corporate law been much help against some of the abuses still seen in many modern countries.
Whatever we are doing we are not seeing as many celebrity judges and lawyers, not as many topsy-turvy decisions emerging from trials, not sparking our own mobs taking to the streets in outrage time and again, not at the mercy of politically appointed actors at the top of the judiciary over the genuinely qualified and merited. If you don't have a solid justice system, and you do not, you have massive warehouses of the poor and minority groups while the puppets of generational wealth make laws and evade real justice with their top criminal defense lawyers more often than they actual face any consequences from their actions. Officer Chauvin did what he did perhaps because he expected to get away with it thanks to the terrible record of the U.S. courts in serious sentences for serious crimes for some but none for others. The U.S. justice system itself is a corrupting influence on society as it stands. This trial is as loaded with detracting practices as any other high profile case. If it results in something other than the usual nothing happens that will be mostly down to sheer amount of documentation, and not a so-called "clever strategy" to have basic medical facts about human bodies given!
Thank you for allowing me to have my say here! :^)
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John Wickett
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 July 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 804
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| Posted: 10 April 2021 at 1:08am | IP Logged | 2
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"Do they allow this ridiculous theater in banana republic courts?"
No. In those countries Chauvin and his cohorts would still be on the job, and there would be no trial for you to vent about, nor would there be widespread media coverage of what the officers did.
I don't agree with every decision that's been made in this case by the attorneys or the judge, but the system is working the way it is supposed to. And the trial is being broadcast for transparency; not entertainment.
I think you're putting the cart before the horse by assuming what the outcome will be. The cases you are comparing this one to are all very different.
As for the rest of your post, you've put me in a tough spot. I don't believe its true that I have talked down to you or talked over you during this discussion, and I would like to keep it that way. But honestly, your rant about America comes across as you lashing out in frustration because you were unable to make the points you wanted to make about our court system.
You're right. U.S. History is filled with tragedies, scandals, and injustices, and they are glaringly inconsistent with the principles we espouse as a nation. So I won't even try to defend all of the issues you've pointed out. I also won't bother to list all of the things that make this a great country, because you probably already know them.
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Doug Centers
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 February 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 5458
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| Posted: 10 April 2021 at 5:17am | IP Logged | 3
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" Canada's growth was not expansion at gunpoint of mobs of settlers moving in at the expense of Native Americans and Spanish-Americans."
...
You're right, mostly Canada's westernly growth was at the expense of the natives by penpoint. Also the indigenous peoples of Canada didn't gain the right to vote until 1960, so much for being the progressive neighbor.
Edited by Doug Centers on 10 April 2021 at 6:50am
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Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12857
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| Posted: 11 April 2021 at 1:25am | IP Logged | 4
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Regarding the Canadian hate against Asians thing, it may be a backlash to wealthy Chinese investors from the People's Republic sinking billions into Canadian real estate, driving up prices and making housing unaffordable. Chinese Canadians I know are totally in love with their country, so it couldn't be that bad there.
Edited by Joe Zhang on 11 April 2021 at 1:28am
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Neil Lindholm
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: China
Posts: 4940
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| Posted: 11 April 2021 at 1:34am | IP Logged | 5
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The Chinese were more of a scapegoat concerning the large rise in Vancouver real estate. They affected the ultra high-end but since they have been largely shut out of the Vancouver market (due to the high taxes) and since the prices are still going crazy, that argument is pretty much dead. The main culprit is antiquated zoning laws and low supply.
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Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4495
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| Posted: 11 April 2021 at 12:34pm | IP Logged | 6
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The last time I looked even much of the supposedly left-slanted media were describing Chauvin as only a "contributing factor" of George Floyd's death. Crazy.
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Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4495
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| Posted: 12 April 2021 at 6:08pm | IP Logged | 7
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Now they're talking mistrial because the judge refused to sequester the jury and keep the latest Minnesota shooting info from them.
Tonight people are in the streets in Minnesota and it's not because some woman on a comic forum thinks Canada has less bizarre trials than they get. I may've said things better or more diplomatically, and usually I do, but sometimes a vent comes on where I feel something has got to be said. I sure do not want a future with such a divided U.S.A.
Edited in the spirit of we should all be on the same side.
Edited by Rebecca Jansen on 12 April 2021 at 7:27pm
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Tim O Neill
Byrne Robotics Security
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 10924
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| Posted: 12 April 2021 at 6:16pm | IP Logged | 8
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OK - that's enough about Canada. This is a thread about George Floyd and the
Black Lives Matter movement, not the Great White North.
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Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4495
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| Posted: 13 April 2021 at 11:48pm | IP Logged | 9
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I saw the most ridiculous thing yet in the Chauvin trial today; a witness paid by the defense to say certain specific things in front of a jury and the court, such as Chauvin acted properly in his use of force and that the force would not have caused death. Apparently this Brodd character offered his service (things they wanted said under oath) to the prosecution first who declined to... hire him. As a lay person I can't possibly understand how the justice system and important trials should operate according to such massively educated professionals... and I don't care if I ever do, this one proves the system is indeed ridiculous. Allowing such a 'witness' ought to be gross negligence, and this one seems to me they should have been immediately charged with perjury. Where all it takes is one juror with enough racism, or anti-drug sentiment, in them, they have plausible deniability on a plate delivered by the U.S. justice system to exonerate the bad cops. A system that allows this kind of performance drama circus in place of reality being discerned, documented and affirmed is one system for the wealthy and the privileged, another usually little to none) for the presumed guilty victim of whom every kind of non-related personal information is exposed to say their might not be equal to that of others!
https://www.axios.com/chauvin-trial-defense-force-expert-geo rge-floyd-5bc32498-fe92-4e89-8d87-d4a9eed3fffe.html
Edited by Rebecca Jansen on 13 April 2021 at 11:50pm
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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 35722
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| Posted: 14 April 2021 at 12:02am | IP Logged | 10
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There are paid witnesses for both the prosecution and the defense. We saw this in the prosecution's portion of the trial over the last two weeks. As with anything in human interaction, there are disagreements and people who see the exact same thing can come to two different conclusions. Both sides understand this. The jury, presumably, understands this because great pains are taken by both sides to say that the witness has been paid for their expert testimony.
But, sure, continue on your tirade, Rebecca, while sitting on the "high horse" of Canadian jurisprudence.
Excuse me while I laugh over here in the corner...
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Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4495
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| Posted: 14 April 2021 at 12:13am | IP Logged | 11
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Yes, everything is so very normal about all this stuff... it is I who is the crazy one. No wonder for why conspiracy theories are so popular there? All those folks "understand", and indeed think they are smarter than others too. Is it a figment of my imagination that a lot of the world, and many groups within it, have been watching the U.S. this last while seeing it getting worse and worse in so many ways teetering on the brink like never before?
Well, laugh away then, laugh at Canada if you want. Like they say, if you're not laughing you might be crying?
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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 35722
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| Posted: 14 April 2021 at 12:22am | IP Logged | 12
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Conspiracy theories are rampant throughout the world. The US is not singular in this regard.
As to the rest...I honestly don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
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