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Topic: X-MEN.ELSEWHEN.12--Comments Post Reply | Post New Topic
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Sean Sinclair
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 28 May 2018
Location: United States
Posts: 49
Posted: 04 June 2020 at 9:39am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

 Eric Sofer wrote:

Jean didn't reach Phoenix' full potential (and might not have been able to) for a while. Magneto was even able to beat her, because she couldn't access all of her power. 

And right before that, Mesmero held Jean as his mind-controlled servant for several days! Kinda odd to think about, given everything that's happened since. 
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Paul Wills
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 18 August 2018
Location: United States
Posts: 343
Posted: 04 June 2020 at 10:21am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

I think there is a great advantage for the writer to also be the artist. The story and art flow so well because one hand knows what the other is doing.
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Mark Haslett
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5103
Posted: 04 June 2020 at 11:54am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

QUOTE: "Can you imagine actually reading this in 1981? Phoenix made a
copy of Jean - what does that mean? I'd be totally confused (and possibly
iffed that the "Jean" I'd been reading about for the past 4-5 years wasn't
the real one). Remember how people reacted to the Spider-clone fiasco of
the nineties! Of course, this wouldn't have happened back then."

***

It wouldn't have happened back then because no one thought of it and
Chris Claremont was very fond of his concept of the benevolent Phoenix.

This series isn't really about trying to create what "would have happened
if..." But if you "imagine" it happening, it would have almost nothing in
common with the Spider-Man clone story. Jean was a supporting character
in a low-selling book who murdered billions of people. Revealing that "--
oops, that wasn't really Jean" would be more along the lines of what you
expect than some kind of betrayal.

The fact is, there is something unique about Phoenix. This series is possible
because of that uniqueness.
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John Byrne

Imaginary X-Man

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 123905
Posted: 04 June 2020 at 12:19pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

It wouldn't have happened back then because no one thought of it and Chris Claremont was very fond of his concept of the benevolent Phoenix.

Reread. Even before we thought of Dark Phoenix, Chris was slipping in (unconscious?) references to the Entity being something to be feared.

It was only after the changed ending was forced upon us, that Chris began his not-so-stealthy campaign to elevate Phoenix. He could never accept that it/she had to be punished, while Galactus did not.

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Andrew Bitner
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 01 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6419
Posted: 04 June 2020 at 12:56pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

This is a terrific example of creating a story that honors the original and builds skillfully upon it, while taking a direction us readers wouldn't anticipate.
It had been so long since I'd read the original that I had to go back and scroll through my Kindle editions of UNCANNY from those days.
And... yup, the team loves Jean but they are often more wary of Phoenix.
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Mark Haslett
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5103
Posted: 04 June 2020 at 1:32pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

JB: Reread. Even before we thought of Dark Phoenix, Chris was slipping in
(unconscious?) references to the Entity being something to be feared.

It was only after the changed ending was forced upon us, that Chris began
his not-so-stealthy campaign to elevate Phoenix.

**

Fascinating. I overlooked how evident this is in both the books and in the
original concept of "The Fate of the Phoenix". If the Entity was benevolent,
what has Lilandra been fearing? Why isn't she looking forward to helping
the Phoenix reach its true, good purpose?

What is the Phoenix? "Power incarnate." Is it something like the "Norse God
of Reincarnation" who destroys in order to advance rebirth?

The idea that it is "benevolent" is confused at best.

It seems clear that Mr. Claremont has a strong attachment to the character,
but it does seem to have changed after Phoenix had to die. I wonder if he
would have been up for the idea that the real Jean was duplicated if it had
come up during the first discussions of this storyline - back when he was
more open to getting rid of Phoenix altogether?

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Michael Genitempo
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 04 July 2019
Location: United States
Posts: 385
Posted: 04 June 2020 at 1:32pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

And... yup, the team loves Jean but they are often more wary of Phoenix.

>>

And that in itself struck a chord with me: that she was mostly alone in dealing with these new powers (except of course for the (ultimately) unwanted company of Mastermind. Not the X-men's fault per se, as it probably a natural reaction to their friend being so different and with such frightening power levels. But it really made me feel for her.
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Tim O Neill
Byrne Robotics Security


Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 10614
Posted: 04 June 2020 at 9:26pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply



These Shi'ar scenes are wonderful - I really like how
everything is coming together. And the intergalactic drama
is giving me a ROMULANS: PAWNS OF WAR vibe!


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John Byrne

Imaginary X-Man

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 123905
Posted: 05 June 2020 at 5:41am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

It seems clear that Mr. Claremont has a strong attachment to the character, but it does seem to have changed after Phoenix had to die. I wonder if he would have been up for the idea that the real Jean was duplicated if it had come up during the first discussions of this storyline - back when he was more open to getting rid of Phoenix altogether?

Chris absolutely hated our resurrection of Jean Grey. Felt it damaged the Death of Phoenix story. The irony was, he'd revisited that particular well so many times--including using Dark Phoenix in the X-TITANS crossover!--that around the office she was called Marvel's least dead dead character!

That was what made bringing Jean back possible. The Death of Phoenix had been so diluted we knew only a few readers would be likely to complain. Most would be glad just to have Jean back.

(If I'd known what would subsequently be DONE with her, I would not have been so quick to bring her back!!)

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Matt Hawes
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 15919
Posted: 05 June 2020 at 6:31am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

Yeah, I remember that the "Uncanny X-Men" title
took some time before even acknowledging that Jean
Grey had returned.

The latest page looks great! Love the way you drew
the containment pod, JB.
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Wallace Sellars
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 01 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 16906
Posted: 05 June 2020 at 7:33am | IP Logged | 11 post reply


 QUOTE:
Love the way you drew the containment pod, JB.


I'm with Matt. It looks so BRIGHT.
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John Byrne

Imaginary X-Man

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 123905
Posted: 05 June 2020 at 7:43am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Love the way you drew the containment pod, JB.

Nothing more brilliant (ahem) there than taking advantage of the slight greying of the image that is an artifact of the scan.

Glad you liked it, tho!

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