Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login
The John Byrne Forum MOBILE
Byrne Robotics | The John Byrne Forum Page of 2 Next >>
Topic: Geeks and nerds! Post Reply | Post New Topic
Author
Message
Matt Hawes
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 16407
Posted: 25 October 2020 at 1:52pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

From another thread...

Eric Sofer: "...Say there... I'M a super nerd! And I suspect that it's possible you are too, Mr. Byrne - and have been disappointed way too often (as I feel occasionally...)

Well, you did write both Superman and Captain America, and if that isn't nerdy, I dunno what is! :) "

John Byrne: "Then you don’t know what is."


I started a new thread for this subject, as I realized my response would veer further off course of the main topic of the thread in which the above quotes appear.

First, let me state to Eric that I am only using his comments and JB's response as a springboard for my topic, and am only using those comments because they are what provoked me to make a response to the subject matter of "nerds" and "geeks." I am NOT commenting on this as a means of criticizing Eric personally, but to discuss the way many comic book and pop culture fans view themselves.


On the matter of fans calling themselves "nerds" or "geeks," then...

I kind of loathe that comic book fans use the terms "nerd" or "geek" to describe themselves.

Again, this is not a knock at you, Eric. I know many people, friends included who do this, and I get "why" they do it. I get that it's embracing a negative term and "making it our own," but it did start out as derogatory and, frankly, in the general public's perception is is still meant that way.

I blame "Wizard" magazine for this. Really. I even wrote them a letter sometime around the early 2000s, or so, addressing this matter. Perhaps naturally, they didn't publish that letter. I took them to task for constantly calling fans "geeks" and "nerds" because it does perpetuate a negative stereotype. Sure, we fans are "in" on the joke, but the public still uses the terms mockingly to describe us. "Wizard" was trying to be edgy, hip, and irreverent, so that is why they adopted those terms and ran with it. Before "Wizard," I rarely, if ever recall fans calling themselves these terms.

It can be argued that taking offense or being annoyed with these terms might be taking things too seriously, but if we don't take ourselves seriously, we can't expect anyone else to do so, either. And if the response one might have to this point is "gee, dude, get a life. It's just funnybooks we're talking about," then the point is already lost on that person.

I roll with it, when I am in the company of others, but I never use those terms to describe myself or other actual fans. I don't support doing so, and I won't promote it. I do not boil with rage at the usage, and at this point it's pretty much a losing battle to hope other fans would stop using those terms to describe themselves and other fans, but I will likely always have some annoyance at the usage.

Don't fool yourselves, either: The general public does not respect us more because we can self-deprecatingly mock ourselves with these terms. "Big Bang Theory" and other similar programs, movies, etc., may be popular, and seem to make the public aware of so-called "geek" culture, but look at how the characters are really being written, and how the regular media and general public receive the shows, etc. They are laughing at such characters, not with them. I don't hate the show "Big Bang Theory," but I am under no delusions that it mocks us fans more than it celebrates us.

I know this is a losing battle. Too many fans do embrace those terms, and treat them like a badge of honor. And, of course, those on the outside will certainly not refrain from using those words to describe us, though obviously they do so in a way contrary to empowering fans. Still, I wish fans would reconsider what they are doing when calling themselves "nerds" or "geeks". It might be accepted within our circles as a "fun" and shorthanded way to describe the community, but I think it really just reinforces the concept of us fans as being oddball weirdo outsiders in the eyes of the masses.

Yeah... "Geek" culture is everywhere these days. It truly is. BUT, ask that jock who wears Deadpool shirts, or the hip chick who talks about seeing every "Avengers" film what comic books they read, and watch the sneer as they say, "I don't read comics."

I had a man come into my shop years ago looking for Superman merchandise. He was someone in top shape, so much so that he was planning to enter a Superman costume contest at the Superman Celebration in Metropolis, Illinois, which is nearby my city. He proudly proclaimed that he was the BIGGEST Superman fan around!

At the time, I didn't have much Superman merchandise that he didn't already have, except for the comic books. Those I had PLENTY of, and I pointed that out to him.

"Oh," He said, "I don't read comics."

You see, these kind of "fans" from outside actual comic book fandom only enjoy the more pop culturally acceptable aspects of comic book related materials. But to actually buy -- Not for the monetary collectible value, mind you -- and.... *GASP* ... actually read comic books?? -- That's going too extreme for them!!


That would make them a geeky nerd!

And who wants to be THAT??





Edited by Matt Hawes on 25 October 2020 at 1:56pm
Back to Top profile | search | www
 
James Woodcock
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 21 September 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 7581
Posted: 25 October 2020 at 2:06pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

I am happy to be called a Geek, but not a nerd. I do find
the term Geek to be less insulting, with less negativity
attached than the term nerd.

I have long, in my own head, humorously distinguished the
two by the following.

A geek is a nerd with social skills.

I think society probably distinguishes the terms more
along the lines of:
Nerd - more to do with academia
Geek - more to do with fiction and its culture.

I don't think I have ever heard someone use the term Nerd
in the positive.
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Matt Hawes
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 16407
Posted: 25 October 2020 at 2:11pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

"A geek is a nerd with social skills."

I thought it was a circus performer who bit the heads off chickens?

;-)





Edited for typo. "Bit" not "bot"!


Edited by Matt Hawes on 25 October 2020 at 2:15pm
Back to Top profile | search | www
 
Matt Hawes
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 16407
Posted: 25 October 2020 at 2:13pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Oh, and to my point about how the generally public perceives fans, I Googled the definition for "geek" and this is the top definition given:

"an unfashionable or socially inept person."

The second definition was the one I mentioned above about a circus performer.

Back to Top profile | search | www
 
Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14812
Posted: 25 October 2020 at 2:36pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

You see, these kind of "fans" from outside actual comic book fandom only enjoy the more pop culturally acceptable aspects of comic book related materials.

——-

In my experience, lots of people like the “jocks” and “hip chicks” are interested in reading comic books after being exposed to them in other media, but they get turned off by the gatekeeping attitude in comic shops and from long-term comic fans. YMMV. 
Back to Top profile | search
 
Matt Hawes
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 16407
Posted: 25 October 2020 at 2:41pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

My mileage does vary, in fact. At my shop I was welcoming to any and all customers. A good retailer should be. But in nearly 20 years of running the shop, and many years since setting up at shows and flea markets, I have not seen a considerable amount of people not traditionally inclined to buy comic books showing an actual interest in doing so.

Edited to add: One thing I will acknowledge is the actual stories in the comics these days can be impenetrable to a newcomer. But again, even when running a flea market booth with people of all walks of life walking by, the interest in comic books from the average "normal" folk was little more than "they still make these things"? And movies, TV shows, etc, bring in very few readers that were not already naturally inclined to pick up a comic book to begin with.




Edited by Matt Hawes on 25 October 2020 at 2:45pm
Back to Top profile | search | www
 
Matt Hawes
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 16407
Posted: 25 October 2020 at 2:55pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

On the matter of "civilians" and comics...

As mentioned above, when I ran a flea market booth, I would naturally see people of the general public milling about due to the nature of such a place, where all sorts of items are sold. I can't tell you have many times people who very seemingly were not your normal comic book person, yet wore comic book related shirt or cap (most were actually and more accurately movie-related, based on comic books) pass by without little more than a glance at a large selection of comics.

I've dealt with comics for decades, and I can honestly say that the vast majority of civilians aren't motivated to buy comics because of the adaptations in other media, and it's not typically because of any gate-keeping situation in my own experience; They just don't have any interest in those comic book things. Movies are more immediate, more visceral. I don't blame people for not getting into something if it doesn't appeal to them, but I won't accept comic fans and shops as the primary cause for their lack of interest. In fact, I know better being that comic books are  literally my livelihood, and I have interacted with all sorts of individuals as a result in my over 30 years of selling now and have firsthand experience to base my own opinion upon.


Edited by Matt Hawes on 25 October 2020 at 2:57pm
Back to Top profile | search | www
 
Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14812
Posted: 25 October 2020 at 3:06pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

I've been involved with comic-related book clubs, which were primarily females in their 20-40s, and the common refrain is that they had a bad experience in a comic shop or were intimidated by the idea that they run into a gatekeeping retailer, so they preferred getting their books from Amazon. There aren't "fans" and fans of a character. There are just fans.

I see the same thing in the RPG space. Pre-COVID, I played regularly at the local game store. Looking around, the tables are still largely occupied by what are old stereotypes of gamers. My table was half female and half LGBTQ+, and it ended up that way because they were made to feel unwelcome by other players, and we were the first table that weren't assholes. Meanwhile, I've been in or observed games in non-game store venues, and the players were decidedly more diverse. Same with live-play gaming events. Diverse audience. In my own home games, half the players are moms. There's a disconnect between the people who feel welcome going to gaming stores and the people who want to game.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12857
Posted: 26 October 2020 at 7:06am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Notice that there's no such thing as a football nerd or action movie geek. Even if being a football fan is an almost entirely passive pursuit. Repeating Arnold Schwarzenegger's famous lines makes you funny at parties. Not "funny" in a eye-roll kind of way.

Basically, sports and militaristic fantasies are the stuff of real men (and women?). At some point in American culture, superheroes and science fiction became associated with meek beta-male behavior. The success of Marvel movies has since rehabilitated public perception of superheroes. Oddly, comic books remain shunned. 



Edited by Joe Zhang on 26 October 2020 at 7:10am
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
John Byrne

Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132135
Posted: 26 October 2020 at 7:17am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

Back to Top profile | search
 
Shawn Kane
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 04 November 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 3239
Posted: 26 October 2020 at 9:50am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

I've never liked the term "nerd" or "geek" used to describe someone. Too much of a negative connotation because even people who refer to themselves as a "(fill-in-the-blank)-nerd" act like it's a fault.

I've mentioned before that as a kid and teenager, I was a comic book reader even though I was considered a "jock" (not a fan of that term either). Luckily, outside of a few people in college who had a snobby attitude about reading Preacher and Sandman, I've never seen the gatekeeping that some people do*. Personally, I'd almost feel like I was insulting someone if I referred to them as a "nerd" or "geek".\


*My LCS has a diverse customer base, so I enjoy having all sorts of friends who are very different from one another be we all love comics.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 4789
Posted: 26 October 2020 at 10:47am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Matt - thanks for the clarification, buddy! And go ahead and criticize. Just don't ask the hard questions. ;) No offense taken, pal. 

"I kind of loathe that comic book fans use the terms "nerd" or "geek" to describe themselves."

Entirely fair. I have a couple of Supergeek "badges" from a comic con that was giving them to... well, to supergeeks! I earned one in a forum I attended on "Time Travel - Cause and Effect" and another on a trivia contest where someone said, "What, is that Mark Waid in disguise?" (And yeah, I dropped all expression from my face and reached for the back of my head. Just the BEST fun!) Perhaps that will me qualification as a nerd/geek.

I understand that it was - and possibly still is - treated as a derogatory term. But I don't take it that way,, and my personal definition is an expert on facts and trivia in a particular non-essential field.

As I get older, I find fewer people using the geek/nerd labels anymore. But everyone (thinks they) know what they mean when using them. Myself, I like to think of it as I defined below. And far too many of those I know/knew really do lack any useful social skills. The worst are those who think they are experts (geeks) when they really know nothing about what they're talking about. Above and beyond comics (where I feel a small degree of expertise*), I've seen people who are Star Trek and Star Wars experts... and are consistently wrong.

Even worse are the ones who find out that I know something about comics and announce that they know "everything" about comics. I try to be polite - "Oh? Which characters? What company? From when?" And they come back with, "Oh, everything. You can't fool me!"

The easiest answer to such a situation is to just say, "How nice" and walk away. If they push, I have a few questions to try 'em out on. Some people insist on being embarrassed, so I help.

Personally, I've been called so much worse by so many other people* that this is just something to roll off my back.

*A close family member called me a Nazi once or twice. That's a little rough to deal with.
Back to Top profile | search
 

Page of 2 Next >>
  Post Reply | Post New Topic |

Forum Jump

 Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login

You are currently viewing the MOBILE version of the site.
CLICK HERE TO VIEW THE FULL SITE