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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132234
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| Posted: 22 June 2021 at 8:09am | IP Logged | 1
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I see via Google news that Billie Eilish is in trouble for using racial slurs in a video. She’s only the latest in an increasing round of celebrities and such who are being compelled to apologize for bad language. This makes me sad. Not because the words are being used, but because we are still giving POWER to those words. No shock, surely, in understanding that words have no power of their own. Only what we attach to them. And it has been my contention for decades now that the only way we will achieve true equality in our society will be to strip words of their artificial power. When it DOESN’T MATTER what words we say to each other, then we will be on the same footing. I find it tragic that, with 20% of the 21st Century behind us, a White man can still manipulate the emotions of a Black audience—or Asian, Latino, female, Gay, etc—with words.
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Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 4789
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| Posted: 22 June 2021 at 9:24am | IP Logged | 2
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People still apply emotional reaction to words BLINDLY. A knee jerk reaction; a white man uses the N word and a black audience loses their mind. But if a BLACK man uses the N word, it's friendly and charming.
Exactly as Mr. Byrne says; words are nothing but symbols. And if misunderstood, then that's where the problems start. I still recall a politician accurately and correctly used the word "niggardly" - but knee-jerks heard the N word and went crazy.
Once people are smart enough to understand how words are used in context, we'll mature a little more. And in all equality and fairness - once people stop using inflammatory words for a couple decades, we'll mature a bit for that as well.
How soon until we can once again use "gay", "sucks", or "blows" with no fear of insult or bad denotation? Not soon enough.
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ron bailey
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 October 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 922
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| Posted: 22 June 2021 at 10:06am | IP Logged | 3
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All language and gestures have different meanings and power in different contexts. The N-word being outrageous in one context and acceptable in another is no more inconsistent than why it's perfectly acceptable to give a high-five to my friend when he does something great, but my mother looks at me like I have two heads if I try to give her one.
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Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14812
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| Posted: 22 June 2021 at 11:18am | IP Logged | 4
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QUOTE:
| People still apply emotional reaction to words BLINDLY. A knee jerk reaction; a white man uses the N word and a black audience loses their mind. But if a BLACK man uses the N word, it's friendly and charming. |
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It's patronizing and condescending to suggest that black audiences are responding with blind emotion, having a knee jerk reaction, or losing their mind with their responses to the N-word. It's a word that's been historically used to oppress them, and its use and desired use by white people signals a desire to continue that oppression. It's not the word itself that has power; it's the ability to use it and the consequences of its use that has power. Contrary to what some white people think, ignoring racism doesn't make it go away.
Stopping racists from using the N-word or making them face consequences for it won't make racism go away either, but it will strip away some of the power imbalance that they've been relying on. |
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Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 15777
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| Posted: 22 June 2021 at 11:54am | IP Logged | 5
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There will always be words and gestures that trigger negative emotional responses. Which words those are may change as time goes by, but as one fades, another will crop up to take its place.
American kids on social media frequently stick two fingers up as a symbol that they think is cool, but which is offensive in the UK. The symbol has no negative power in US culture. But in its place, you can flip someone the bird and you'll get the same negative response.
Maybe one day we'll be so enlightened that we'll be beyond all this, but the pattern seems to be moving in the wrong way in terms of empowering words and gestures with negative triggering power (see for example, the OK sign in recent years).
*Edited to add a missing word.
Edited by Peter Martin on 22 June 2021 at 11:54am
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132234
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| Posted: 22 June 2021 at 12:02pm | IP Logged | 6
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Stopping racists from using the N-word or making them face consequences for it won't make racism go away either, but it will strip away some of the power imbalance that they've been relying on.••• Hardly. Black people had almost neutered the N-word by aggressively making it their own, then mostly White liberals decided it was time to ban the word entirely and basically turned it right back into a way to manipulate the emotions of Black people. There’s no denying the word has a bleak and terrible history, but burying words is not the way to defang them. Quite the opposite.
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Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14812
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| Posted: 22 June 2021 at 12:41pm | IP Logged | 7
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Black people had almost neutered the N-word by aggressively making it their own, then mostly White liberals decided it was time to ban the word entirely and basically turned it right back into a way to manipulate the emotions of Black people.
———
White liberals are almost always playing catch up when it comes to these issues. POC have been having these discussions within their communities, and contrary to what white people think, no one is leading them anywhere. White liberals are still behind the curve.
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Jabari Lamar
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 October 2017
Location: United States
Posts: 351
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| Posted: 22 June 2021 at 2:09pm | IP Logged | 8
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Seriously?
In the 21st Century we still have White people asking "why is it okay when THEY say it, but I can't?!?" regarding the N-word (or any other ethnic slur, like the one Billie used)? Like you really don't understand context?
Listen to Queen Latifah's rap hit, U.N.I.T.Y. where she decries the practice of men calling women bitches or hoes, even in the song she acknowledges context. Now everybody knows there's exceptions to this rule
Now don't be getting mad, when we're playing, it'scool
But don't you be calling out my name
I bring wrath to those who disrespect me like a dame It's no different than any other words are things you use and say in different context with people in your lives, including your friends and families. You may call your best friend an idiot, or a jerk, or an a-hole, but you're saying it for fun and he or she gets it, so no one is offended. But those sAme words to someone you don't know can get you punched in the face. It's the same difference between ME joking to my mother about her being fat and YOU joking to me about my mother being fat. She's my mother, I can make that joke and yet also be offended by someone making the same joke, and I'm going to give everyone reading this the benefit of the doubt that you'd immediately understand why it wouldn't be okay for you to make the joke to me, unless you also have some close relationship with my mother. It shouldn't be that hard to grasp the concept. Ta-Nehisi Coates also once succinctly explained this with similar examples, including why he thinks White people have such a problem with this.
Edited by Jabari Lamar on 22 June 2021 at 2:12pm
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Michael Penn
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 12429
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| Posted: 22 June 2021 at 2:16pm | IP Logged | 9
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It's been a few years since I've taught law & literature, and in the past I've used a variety of texts by white and black authors where the N-word appears, and, where the nature of the discussion is suitable, we have said the word.
But since then, I've become concerned that the next time I teach the course I might not use the word under any circumstances.
I don't worry in the slightest about my black students. But I am growing more anxious that a white student might express vicarious offense and, tenure shmenure, the administration would/could not stand by my choice to allows its usage, no matter what.
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Marc Baptiste
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3655
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| Posted: 22 June 2021 at 4:38pm | IP Logged | 10
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The fact the JB nor anyone else on this board has chosen to have the courage to resume the fight to "defang" something the like N-word by saying it outright shows even YOU guys don't feel comfortable saying it.
Marc
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Brian Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 30884
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| Posted: 22 June 2021 at 5:04pm | IP Logged | 11
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You didn’t say it, Mr high and mighty Marc.
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James Johnson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 March 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 2057
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| Posted: 22 June 2021 at 5:57pm | IP Logged | 12
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As a black man, I really want to share my experiences with the N-word on this forum, but I know it'll bring out the trolls and others.
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