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Topic: Thanos creator gearing up for lawsuit! Locked Post Reply | Post New Topic
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John Byrne

Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 136298
Posted: 08 July 2012 at 7:00am | IP Logged | 1  

A number of creators or their estates now seem to have gone the "I had it in my portfolio before giving it to the company" route without success. Interestingly, I can think of two creations, both by Len Wein--that actually saw print in fanzines before being published by Marvel. One is Nova, an adult, not an adolescent, but in essentially the same costume as the Marvel version, published in Len and Marv Wolfman's fanzine, the title of which escapes me. Marv may have had something to do with Nova as well. The other is Will-o-the-Wisp, a conceptual drawing of which appeared in Comic Crusader. W-o-W was repurposed as a villain in Spider-man, in a completely different costume by Ross Andru, but kept the same powers.

I've never heard a word about lawsuits over these characters, probably because neither was particularly successful.

••

Nova, originally Black Nova, was Wolfman's fan character, and he was on the list of characters Marv attempted to claim as part of the Blade suit.

The focus in the fan media was on Blade, since he had a couple of movies, but the list was actually quite long, and even included the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse!

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Lars Sandmark
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Joined: 05 October 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 3138
Posted: 08 July 2012 at 8:40am | IP Logged | 2  


"...included the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse!"

Wow, Marv's been writing for a long time!
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Carmen Bernardo
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Joined: 08 August 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 3666
Posted: 08 July 2012 at 8:50am | IP Logged | 3  

     I think the key term that applies here is "work for hire".  Starlin gave his character to Marvel, and so he gave up the rights.  The same would've applied to me if I had gotten my wish and been hired by the company after a decade of fan-fiction art and story plotting, and repurposed a character made in those days as a Marvel character only to leave the book for which I presented the character a few years later.  It kind of diminishes him in my eyes a bit, seeing him turn around like this.
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John Byrne

Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 136298
Posted: 08 July 2012 at 8:54am | IP Logged | 4  

     I think the key term that applies here is "work for hire". Starlin gave his character to Marvel, and so he gave up the rights. The same would've applied to me if I had gotten my wish and been hired by the company after a decade of fan-fiction art and story plotting, and repurposed a character made in those days as a Marvel character only to leave the book for which I presented the character a few years later. It kind of diminishes him in my eyes a bit, seeing him turn around like this.

••

I can take this even a step further. I created Snowbird in my fan days, and she had her "debut" in the satirical strip GAY GUY I did for the SAIT newspaper while I was in College. So I can honestly say that I created her before Alpha Flight AND that she was published before I used her in X-MEN.

Does that mean I will sic the lawyers on Marvel when that multi-million dollar SNOWBIRD movie comes out?

No.

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John Byrne

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Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 136298
Posted: 08 July 2012 at 8:57am | IP Logged | 5  

He created the character prior to getting hired by Marvel, so there's an argument to be made that it wasn't strictly work-for-hire. I'm not sure how many cases like that have been favorable for the plaintiff, but there's no reason for Starlin not to try for it--especially if Marvel can't produce a contract to the effect that they own all of Starlin's original characters.

••

The "contract" was on the back of the check. It's been argued round and round that that was not strictly legal, but we signed them or we didn't get paid. By signing them, we effectively accepted the terms, fair or not.

You take the King's shilling, you do the King's bidding.

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Anthony J Lombardi
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Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 9365
Posted: 08 July 2012 at 9:05am | IP Logged | 6  

Bill Everett created The Sub-Mariner for Motion Picture Funnies Weekly. 
 So someone correct me if i'm remembering wrong but his first appearance in Marvel comics #1 is a reprint. 
Now I think had he wanted to make an case out of it Everett could have but he didn't. 

I would argue that he is one of the men who was a corner stone of what built Marvel. 
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John Byrne

Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 136298
Posted: 08 July 2012 at 9:19am | IP Logged | 7  

Bill Everett created The Sub-Mariner for Motion Picture Funnies Weekly. So someone correct me if i'm remembering wrong but his first appearance in Marvel comics #1 is a reprint. Now I think had he wanted to make an case out of it Everett could have but he didn't.

I would argue that he is one of the men who was a corner stone of what built Marvel.

••

A lot of how it worked in the "Golden Age" had to do with the Absolute Power wielded by the Publishers. If you wanted to work in comics -- or, perhaps more correctly, if you wanted to make a living wage working in comics, there were very few options.

Will Eisner objected to the situation as it existed, and walked away. He found his own avenues and followed (and even built) them. Jack Kirby played the game -- to the extent that he operated by the same rules when he became a publisher himself

It is also important to remember that comics, despite the presence of some truly spectacular talent, were very much the bottom of the barrel. This was where people ended up who were unable to make it into the strips. It would be a long time before comics became somewhere that could be considered a first choice. (Remember, that even top talent like Neal Adams, Joe Kubert, Gil Kane, etc, still worked in the strips when they could.)

So much has changed in such a relatively short time, it's difficult for some to remember what conditions were like BEFORE the changes. Wolfman's lawsuit against Marvel seemed largely predicated on this, in fact. He seemed genuinely surprised when people turned up in court to say "No, that's not how it was." People like Jim Shooter, Tom Palmer, Gene Colan.*

––––

* Historic accuracy: Palmer and Colan did not testify in court. They gave depositions that became part of the record.

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Rick Whiting
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Joined: 22 April 2004
Posts: 2296
Posted: 08 July 2012 at 9:46am | IP Logged | 8  

This quote from Starlin is rather odd to my eyes:

"This is the second film that had something I created for Marvel in it - the Infinity Gauntlet in Thor being the other - and both films I had to pay for my own ticket to see them. Financial compensation to the creators of these characters doesn't appear to be part of the equation."

I wonder if that's a garbled quote? Doesn't seem in character for Jim to play the deer-in-the-headlights gambit. He's been in the business longer than I have. Surely none of this is new to him?

___________________________

This is a bit of mind reading on my part, but maybe this was Starlin's way of getting back at current Marvel by painting them in a bad light. Starlin has been blacklisted at Marvel for several years after a falling out that he had with Quesada after he was told the he couldn't use Warlock in the Thanos ongoing series that he was writing. When he came looking for work from Marvel 3 years ago, he was told that he had a better chance of winning the Lotto then working for Marvel ever again.
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John Byrne

Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 136298
Posted: 08 July 2012 at 10:32am | IP Logged | 9  

When [Starlin] came looking for work from Marvel 3 years ago, he was told that he had a better chance of winning the Lotto then working for Marvel ever again.

••

Source?

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Leigh DJ Hunt
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Joined: 20 February 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1569
Posted: 08 July 2012 at 12:22pm | IP Logged | 10  

http://www.bleedingcool.com/forums/marvel-comics/59549-marve l-reprints-two-jim-starlin-thanos-stories-comic-form-septemb er-4.html

Jim Starlin: Dear Bleeding Cool,

This article has given some the impression that I am working again at Marvel. I'm now getting flooded with e-mails, asking about this. Let me make it clear that I am not working for Marvel or have any plans or intention of doing so. Nor does Marvel wish me to work for them. Back in 2009, when I then sought employment from Marvel, I was informed that I had a better chance of winning the lottery than I had of ever getting work from Marvel again. Please be clearer in your reporting in the future.

--------------------------------------


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Leigh DJ Hunt
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Joined: 20 February 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1569
Posted: 08 July 2012 at 12:23pm | IP Logged | 11  

And I think the fall-out was with Tom Brevoort rather than Quesada from what I remember of the story at the time.
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John Byrne

Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 136298
Posted: 08 July 2012 at 12:25pm | IP Logged | 12  

… the fall-out was with Tom Brevoort…

••

Nuff said.

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