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Topic: Thanos creator gearing up for lawsuit! Locked Post Reply | Post New Topic
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David Ferguson
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 17 March 2007
Location: Ireland
Posts: 6782
Posted: 08 July 2012 at 12:49pm | IP Logged | 1  

DC have cut checks for people who's stories have been used in movies. Marvel not so much.
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John Byrne

Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 136298
Posted: 08 July 2012 at 1:01pm | IP Logged | 2  

DC have cut checks for people who's stories have been used in movies. Marvel not so much.

••

Yes, Paul Levitz sent me a very nice check after my work was specifically mentioned as a chief inspiration for the show, in a New York Times article about SMALLVILLE.

Only for the first season, tho. . .

(It should be noted that Paul always made a point of sending me any of the toys/statues/merchandize specifically based on my work. Other creators too, I suppose.)

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Neil Brauer
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Joined: 10 February 2012
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Posted: 08 July 2012 at 1:08pm | IP Logged | 3  

You know what?  If I was given a smart assed remark like "You have a better chance of winning the lottery than working at Marvel again."  And then two of my creations were used in blockbuster movies, I would be pissed off too.  I know we're only getting one side of the story but Jim Starlin has a very impressive body of work they are drawing from. 

What have these current guys CREATED?  I don't like people that I have respected and who's work I have admired since I was a kid treated like this.  When people work together, there are going to be differences that come up.  You don't make insulting and petty comments like that just because you can.  It's unprofessional-- and to put it in language they can understand-- punk-ass.

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Matt Hawes
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Joined: 16 April 2004
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Posted: 08 July 2012 at 1:15pm | IP Logged | 4  

 John Byrne wrote:
...It should be noted that Paul always made a point of sending me any of the toys/statues/merchandize specifically based on my work. Other creators too, I suppose....


Years ago, Mort Nodell, the creator of the original Green Lantern, told me that DC sent him Green Lantern merchandise over the years. This seemed to include the Hal Jordan version.
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Rick Whiting
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Joined: 22 April 2004
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Posted: 08 July 2012 at 3:53pm | IP Logged | 5  

Here's a video with Starlin talking about what happened during his brief run on the Thanos series.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDYJ65JUYzI&feature=related

and if that link don't work, just head on over to youtube and type in the search engine "JIM STARLIN on Batman, Thanos and corporate comic books".

Edited by Rick Whiting on 08 July 2012 at 3:55pm
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Rick Whiting
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Posted: 08 July 2012 at 4:00pm | IP Logged | 6  

And I think the fall-out was with Tom Brevoort rather than Quesada from what I remember of the story at the time.

________________________________

IIRC, several years ago Brevoort once said on another message board (I think it was in his forum over on comixfan) that Starlin couldn't come back to Marvel until he apologizes to Quesada. I'm recalling this all from memory, so I'm saying maybe be partly or completely wrong. So take it with a grain of salt.
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John Byrne

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Joined: 11 May 2005
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Posted: 08 July 2012 at 4:26pm | IP Logged | 7  

There have been writers and artists who have SUED Marvel and continued to get work. There have been writers and artists who have STOLEN from Marvel and continued to get work. There have been writers and artists who have spent most of their time badmouthing Marvel and have continued to get work.

But Starlin has to APOLOGIZE? Seriously???

Cry me a frickin' river!!

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John Byrne

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Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 136298
Posted: 08 July 2012 at 4:37pm | IP Logged | 8  

There's an illustration here of how things have changed AND GONE WRONG at Marvel.

Some of you may recall a brief discussion hereabouts, when X-MEN FOREVER was announced. The idea was what would I do with such a book of my own. The title kicked around was X-MEN EVERMORE. I played with some ideas. I said it sounded like it could be fun.

Someone -- I shall not name names, since they sort of overstepped their bounds -- reported this to Breevort, who said if I called Marvel to SHOW I WAS SINCERE they might consider this.

Let's compare that to…

Assigned to IRON FIST because the production manager called me.

Assigned to THE CHAMPIONS because the EiC offered it to me.

Assigned to X-MEN because the EiC offered it to me.

Asked by the EiC to develop ALPHA FLIGHT in their own book.

Assigned to AVENGERS because the editor offered it to me - twice!

Assigned to FANTASTIC FOUR because the EiC offered it to me.

Assigned to WEST COAST AVENGERS because the editor offered it to me.

Asked by the Associate EiC to develop SHE-HULK in her own book.

Assigned to SPIDER-MAN: CHAPTER ONE because the editor offered it to me.

Assigned to THE HULK (second time) because the editor offered it to me (at the request of the artist).

And that is NOT a comprehensive list!

Once upon a time, part of the editors job was to solicit new products, find combinations of titles and talent and set them up, MAKE THE MAGIC HAPPEN. Not sit upon his lofty throne and wait for freelancers to approach, hats in hand, doing their best Oliver Twist impressions.

(And some people still wonder why I won't work for Marvel!)

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Neil Brauer
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Joined: 10 February 2012
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Posted: 08 July 2012 at 5:04pm | IP Logged | 9  

They won't be there forever JB.
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Steven McCauley
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Joined: 23 June 2004
Location: United States
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Posted: 08 July 2012 at 5:24pm | IP Logged | 10  

They've been there long enough that Marvel is unrecognizable.

Except for Daredevil.  As much as I dislike Birthright, I love what Waid is doing on Daredevil.
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Rick Whiting
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Joined: 22 April 2004
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Posted: 08 July 2012 at 6:30pm | IP Logged | 11  

There have been writers and artists who have SUED Marvel and continued to get work. There have been writers and artists who have STOLEN from Marvel and continued to get work. There have been writers and artists who have spent most of their time badmouthing Marvel and have continued to get work.But Starlin has to APOLOGIZE? Seriously???Cry me a frickin' river!!

_________________________________


Sadly, I think that at today's Marvel (or as I like to call it "The House THat Quesada/Jemas Wrecked") only elite critically acclaimed,celebrity,and/or currently popular creators can have their problems with Marvel over looked and be given work without having to apologize. Starlin's work is not considered popular enough or held in the same elitist high regard as Alan Moore to be given work without having to apologize.

OMT, 2 other veteran creators who are blacklisted from working at Marvel are Chuck Dixon (for criticizing Marvel over the gay Rawhide Kid story) and Marv Wolfman (because of his lawsuit against Marvel over the ownership of Blade and the other characters that he created for them).

Edited by Rick Whiting on 08 July 2012 at 6:38pm
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Andrew W. Farago
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Joined: 19 July 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4075
Posted: 08 July 2012 at 9:42pm | IP Logged | 12  

Marvel and DC aren't about to give up any stake in ownership of their characters, but I wish that they'd do better by the creators of those characters.  DC's model of bonus checks for use of characters in other media is a big step in the right direction.  Len Wein's received more compensation for co-creating Lucius Fox than he has for co-creating Wolverine (and when's the last time you saw a kid wearing Lucius Fox Underoos?). 

Hawkeye's in your movie?  Send a bonus check to Stan Lee, Larry Lieber, and the estates of Don Heck and Jack Kirby.  Kitty Pryde's in your movie?  Send bonus checks to John Byrne, Terry Austin and Chris Claremont, toss in some money for Tom Orzechowski, Glynis Wein and Jim Shooter, give them each a case of movie-branded action figures, and make sure they and their families get flown out to Hollywood for the premiere.  Whatever the work-for-hire contract says, if you can afford to give the people who built your company the red carpet treatment, do it.

Starlin's probably still in the fielding-calls-from-intellectual-property-lawyers stage, and Marvel can head this all off at the pass by offering a bonus check (or a pension), giving him a creator credit, inviting him to the Hollywood premiere, and not treating him like the hired help. 

They're probably under zero obligation to do so, but their current policy is a big reason that no one's created any really major new characters for them since Cable, Deadpool and Gambit over 20 years ago.  Venom, Cloak & Dagger, and, I dunno, maybe Hobgoblin are on the short list of enduring characters to come along from Marvel in the 1980s, and we're approaching 40 years since Wolverine, Punisher and The New X-Men came onto the scene.  Treat the creators better, and they'll bring you characters that aren't just Wolverine Jr., Different-Colored-Hulk, Lady-Ghost-Rider and Variant-Spider-Man. 
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