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Frank Leeoh
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 June 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 35
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| Posted: 07 July 2012 at 9:11pm | IP Logged | 1
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Hello everyone, I bring news :
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/comics/news/a392134/thanos-creat or-gearing-up-for-lawsuit.html#article_continue
Personally, I don't know how to feel about this. Was an agreement broken? Is this a money grab? After Superman creators, Kirby, Ghostrider, Blade and whatever else, this is just becoming noise in my head.
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Bill Guerra
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 March 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 1071
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| Posted: 07 July 2012 at 9:22pm | IP Logged | 2
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I've heard rumblings of this, but I don't think Starlin has a leg to stand on. From what I understand, once a work for hire check is cashed, all this claims of ownership nonsense isn't valid. I agree that creators should be treated fairly and paid accordingly (like a "creation fee" perhaps and royalties), no doubt. I do agree that all of these cases popping up just begins making my head hurt.
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Anthony J Lombardi
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 9365
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| Posted: 07 July 2012 at 9:27pm | IP Logged | 3
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I'm all for the creators getting paid but comic artist know the deal when they do the work. Still thats not to say I don't hope Jim Starlin gets paid some cash.
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Robert Bradley
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 September 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 4954
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| Posted: 07 July 2012 at 9:51pm | IP Logged | 4
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Where do you draw the line?
Sure, Starlin might have had the idea for Thanos long before he was published, but where's the difference between that and Dave Cockrum bringing his idea for Nightcrawler with him to Marvel? Or many other creators who probably used ideas that they had thought up before working for a comics company?
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Andrew W. Farago
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 July 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4075
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| Posted: 07 July 2012 at 11:49pm | IP Logged | 5
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He created the character prior to getting hired by Marvel, so there's an argument to be made that it wasn't strictly work-for-hire. I'm not sure how many cases like that have been favorable for the plaintiff, but there's no reason for Starlin not to try for it--especially if Marvel can't produce a contract to the effect that they own all of Starlin's original characters.
What they should do is settle this out of court and give Starlin a nice big check as a thank you for creating the villain for their next billion-dollar movie, hire him to write some more Thanos books, and avoid the bad PR they'll get when he reveals that they aren't even giving him a bag of popcorn when Avengers 2 hits the big screen.
They probably aren't obligated to do anything, but it wouldn't affect Disney's bottom line if they gave Jim Starlin a million bucks, and then wrote million-dollar checks to each creator (or estate) for any character used in one of their movies. Give the Kirbys ten million for the Avengers, give some money to the Don Heck estate, give Roy Thomas enough money to put hologram chromium covers on every issue of Alter Ego, and give the Buscemas enough cash to put a down payment on a lifesize replica of Avengers Mansion.
Whether Marvel can prove that they own Thanos outright or not, Disney stands to make another billion dollars off the Avengers sequel (and who knows if Thanos will be featured in the likely-to-be-profitable Guardians of the Galaxy movie), and handing out bonus checks to the people that created these characters would be a great thing for all involved. Writers and artists would be more willing to create new characters for the company, creators aren't going to feel like replaceable cogs in the machine, and the Hero Initiative will have a few less creators whoy]'ll need their support in their old age.
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Andrew W. Farago
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 July 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4075
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| Posted: 07 July 2012 at 11:53pm | IP Logged | 6
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Where do you draw the line?
Sure, Starlin might have had the idea for Thanos long before he was published, but where's the difference between that and Dave Cockrum bringing his idea for Nightcrawler with him to Marvel? Or many other creators who probably used ideas that they had thought up before working for a comics company?
There's probably not any difference between the Thanos and Nightcrawler situation. Marvel had to be shamed into giving Cockrum a pension later in his life when they should have offered compensation as soon as his New X-Men characters starred in a hit movie. The parent companies of Marvel and DC can afford to be generous here.
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Marc M. Woolman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 April 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 2092
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| Posted: 08 July 2012 at 3:13am | IP Logged | 7
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Wasn't DC/Warner Bros generous to Denny O'neil and Neal Adams around the time of Batman Begins, for their creation of Ras al Gul?Kind of hoped that would catch on. Was Kirby named or thanked during the Avengers Credits?
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Trevor Smith
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 3678
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| Posted: 08 July 2012 at 3:29am | IP Logged | 8
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Yeah, it sounds harsh, but it doesn't matter one WHIT if
Starlin created Thanos before or after he started at
Marvel. He essentially "gave" him to Marvel under their
standard work for hire arrangement, he got his pay and
that's that. He knew how the system worked, and if he had
a problem with it, he should have started something like
this long before now, rather than waiting 'til the
possibility of involvement in a multi-billion dollar movie
franchise came 'round.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 136297
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| Posted: 08 July 2012 at 4:32am | IP Logged | 9
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… it doesn't matter one WHIT if Starlin created Thanos before or after he started at Marvel. He essentially "gave" him to Marvel under their standard work for hire arrangement…•• Pretty much the whole thing in a nutshell. Conditions vis creator's rights have improved enormously, just in the (relatively) short time I've been in the business, but none of those changes were retroactive.
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Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14923
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| Posted: 08 July 2012 at 4:56am | IP Logged | 10
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I think the title of the thread is misleading. There is speculation by comics websites of a lawsuit, because Starlin posted an old sketch of Thanos. That Thanos began as a Metron ripoff and that Starlin has stated that he had come up with Thanos prior to working at Marvel is not exactly new news.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 08 July 2012 at 5:45am | IP Logged | 11
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I think the title of the thread is misleading. There is speculation by comics websites of a lawsuit, because Starlin posted an old sketch of Thanos. That Thanos began as a Metron ripoff and that Starlin has stated that he had come up with Thanos prior to working at Marvel is not exactly new news.•• This quote from Starlin is rather odd to my eyes: "This is the second film that had something I created for Marvel in it - the Infinity Gauntlet in Thor being the other - and both films I had to pay for my own ticket to see them. Financial compensation to the creators of these characters doesn't appear to be part of the equation." I wonder if that's a garbled quote? Doesn't seem in character for Jim to play the deer-in-the-headlights gambit. He's been in the business longer than I have. Surely none of this is new to him? Incidentally, that early version, pictured in the article, seems more of a Metron/Darkseid fusion than pure Metron. And, of course, Thanos ended up rather unabashedly modeled on Darkseid. See my "editorial comment" HERE.
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Robert Cosgrove
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 January 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 1710
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| Posted: 08 July 2012 at 6:58am | IP Logged | 12
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Thanos never much impressed me as anything more than Darkseid lite with pretensions. Indeed, after Gil Kane left the Captain Marvel book, I pretty much lost interest. (I regard the ballyhooed "Death of Captain Marvel" graphic novel with all the same enthusiasm I greet the deaths of other characters).
A number of creators or their estates now seem to have gone the "I had it in my portfolio before giving it to the company" route without success. Interestingly, I can think of two creations, both by Len Wein--that actually saw print in fanzines before being published by Marvel. One is Nova, an adult, not an adolescent, but in essentially the same costume as the Marvel version, published in Len and Marv Wolfman's fanzine, the title of which escapes me. Marv may have had something to do with Nova as well. The other is Will-o-the-Wisp, a conceptual drawing of which appeared in Comic Crusader. W-o-W was repurposed as a villain in Spider-man, in a completely different costume by Ross Andru, but kept the same powers.
I've never heard a word about lawsuits over these characters, probably because neither was particularly successful. But if there's ever a movie where Nova fights W-o-W, it could be interesting . . . (or it could be, at least as far as Nova, that there was disclosure and a token sum paid for rights to the character).
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