"Batman Illustrated by Neal Adams"
Printed From: The John Byrne Forum
Forum Name: The John Byrne Forum
Forum Discription: Everything to do with comic book writer/artist John Byrne
URL: https://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=22545
Printed Date: 11 June 2026 at 11:58am
Topic: "Batman Illustrated by Neal Adams"
Posted By: Kevin Sharp
Subject: "Batman Illustrated by Neal Adams"
Date Posted: 18 December 2007 at 11:45am
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Hi everyone,
Long time reader, first time writer. I'm looking for opinions on the series of Adams Batman hardcovers. Reviews I've read mention that all the stories have been recolored and some art even redrawn. I've never seen an unsealed copy of these books, so I can't look firsthand. Alternately, does anyone have suggestions on the best format for getting the Adams stories? I have a few scattered back issues but would like to get as close to complete as possible. Thanks! p.s. For any grammarticians in the audience, I apologize for misusing quotation marks in the topic line. |
Replies:
Posted By: Greg Woronchak
Date Posted: 18 December 2007 at 11:50am
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The recolored artwork looks really nice, but feels a bit 'out of place'. I guess it's because I enjoy the original, murky printed artwork so much, the new clean lines and rendering seem a bit too far removed from the original source. So, I'm a bit iffy on these HCs.... |
Posted By: Aric Shapiro
Date Posted: 18 December 2007 at 11:54am
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I love the stories collected and the ORIGINAL art. I did not care for the touch ups nor for the new colors. Neal redres some of the original art, and his newer style did not mesh well with his older stuff, so the book just didn't look right. Plus, as I recall, only some of it was recolored and redone. ------------- |
Posted By: Paul Reis
Date Posted: 18 December 2007 at 12:05pm
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this is a "Neal Adams" book not an "archive" book - he wanted to do the touch ups, so you have to allow for that. like the others above, i was not overly impressed with the touch ups, but if your aim is to get ALL Neal Adams' Batman, this collects it all quite nicely at a decent price. if i remember correctly (i'm at work and can't check) about half of volume 1 was touched, the other half was not - volume 2 and 3 were. |
Posted By: Bill Collins
Date Posted: 18 December 2007 at 12:24pm
| I have vol 1 on order,if i like it i will be getting vols 2 and 3.I have loads on order,i bet they all come at once like busses! |
Posted By: Joakim Jahlmar
Date Posted: 18 December 2007 at 12:28pm
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All in all, I must say that I'm very happy to have invested in all of the three hard cover volumes. Sure, the recolouring may not be everybody's cup of tea, but as stated, I don't think it's all of the material, and this is some amazing material collected in one place, whichever way one looks at it. ------------- L&B, JJ3 a.k.a. The Mad Swede a.k.a. The Mighty Wha-keem Candy-Coated Avatar courtesy of Anthony J Lombardi |
Posted By: Aric Shapiro
Date Posted: 18 December 2007 at 12:30pm
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If you do get the HCs, you might also enjoy the Deadman and Green Lantern/Green Arrow collections ------------- |
Posted By: Eric Lund
Date Posted: 18 December 2007 at 12:31pm
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Titan Books in Britain re-printed almost all of the Neal Adams Batmans in Black & White and they are really great!
I have all of the original Adams Batman comics and I have the new re-colored books.... There really is no other way to get EVERYTHING he did on Batman outside of these books and the colors I feel are hit and miss... At times very cool but more often than not they are over-powering on the artwork. The touch-ups he did are only really noticeable on the BookN'Record reprints and in those instances I think they dont' look good at all. But for the money they are the best way to get his run on the character... The original comics in my opinion are the best versions but they now cost a small fortune to get... |
Posted By: Glenn Greenberg
Date Posted: 18 December 2007 at 12:50pm
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I would have preferred DC going the "Archives" route with the Neal Adams
stuff and reprint them as close to the original versions as possible. But to have all the Adams stuff together in bound volumes was something I just could not pass up. That said, I have all but one of the issues of BATMAN that Adams penciled. I have: The first Ra's Al Ghul stories "Half An Evil" "The Joker's Five-Way Revenge" "The Bruce Wayne Murder Case" "Night of the Reaper" "Moon of the Wolf" (written by Len Wein, and the last story that Neal would draw for the regular BATMAN comic series) And I have "The House That Haunted Batman" from DETECTIVE COMICS #408, written by a young Len Wein and Marv Wolfman ------------- Glenn Greenberg |
Posted By: Joakim Jahlmar
Date Posted: 18 December 2007 at 1:02pm
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I'll second Ari's vote for the Green Lantern/Green Arrow TPBs and the Deadman HC. Haven't had time to read the Deadman volume yet, but it looks VERY nice. And I loved the GL/GA TPBs. ------------- L&B, JJ3 a.k.a. The Mad Swede a.k.a. The Mighty Wha-keem Candy-Coated Avatar courtesy of Anthony J Lombardi |
Posted By: Paul Reis
Date Posted: 18 December 2007 at 1:12pm
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Joakim said: I don't think it's all of the material Glenn said: I have all but one of the issues of BATMAN that Adams i had always thought these 3 volumes did collect ALL - does anyone know of any Neal Adams' Batman that is missing?
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Posted By: Pat Ditton
Date Posted: 18 December 2007 at 1:20pm
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You can also by SIGNED and SKETCH editions thru Neal's coninuity web-site.
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Posted By: Kurt Anderson
Date Posted: 18 December 2007 at 1:26pm
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Nice that Neal got to fix his previous work (I bought all three), but I'd rather have something like the Kirby 4th World Omnibus filled with the Adams stuff. I'd buy both versions. God knows I have the early Ra's Ah Guhl stories in four or five formats... one more won't hurt.
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Posted By: Flavio Sapha
Date Posted: 18 December 2007 at 1:30pm
| I got the first one. Truth be told, HC comics make me unconfortable, I much prefer a cheapo format, like the Essentials. |
Posted By: Joakim Jahlmar
Date Posted: 18 December 2007 at 1:43pm
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Paul - I meant I don't think it's all of the material that's been markedly recoloured (though I might be wrong here, hence the think). It should as far as I know be a complete collection of everything Adams did on Batman, including covers. Flavio - I like both and I really enjoy the options. Some nice HC collections on the shelves are really nice, but I wouldn't want to trade away Essentials or Showcase volumes for them... but on the other hand not vice versa either. In a perfect world most great comics would be reprinted in both formats (and possibly a colour TPB as well) for different people to get their choice of format for each specific comic). Needless to say the world is flawed and imperfect. ;) ------------- L&B, JJ3 a.k.a. The Mad Swede a.k.a. The Mighty Wha-keem Candy-Coated Avatar courtesy of Anthony J Lombardi |
Posted By: JohnByrne4
Date Posted: 18 December 2007 at 1:59pm
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A few years back, Paul Kupperberg gave to me, for my birthday, a German
collection of Neal's Batman work, in black and white. Printed large sized and beautifully clear in most cases (oddly, a page to which I own the original art got kinda smudgy printing), this is my Adams "bible". I would recommend it over just about anything else. |
Posted By: Ted Pugliese
Date Posted: 18 December 2007 at 2:07pm
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That sounds cool, JB, but I have never seen it. Unless you have access to the book JB describied, I say buy 'em all! I have all three NA HC's, and all of them are signed and sketched. They are in my pics on myspace which you can see by clicking my www below. I have the GL/GA and Deadman HC Collections as well. I love 'em! ------------- |
Posted By: Martin Redmond
Date Posted: 18 December 2007 at 2:26pm
| DC also prints it's classics in soft cover on matte paper. It looks much much better than gloss for comic book art. |
Posted By: Lars Johansson
Date Posted: 18 December 2007 at 2:48pm
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Adams' episodes in Greatest Batman Stories ever Told seems also to be the recolored ones. Is Egmont (Joakim!) only publishing the first one of Adams, also Byrne's FF, or what are they doing? ------------- |
Posted By: Greg Woronchak
Date Posted: 18 December 2007 at 2:59pm
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The fun part is trying to collect issues with Neal's covers for Superboy and Superman. I'm only missing a few... <g> |
Posted By: Eric Lund
Date Posted: 18 December 2007 at 3:22pm
| I know that in the 2nd Neal Adams Batman book that the color seperation done in China had the contrast blasted way too high and that book came out very dark. Neal was very upset about it but in the 3rd book they adjusted for it. |
Posted By: Kevin Sharp
Date Posted: 18 December 2007 at 10:19pm
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Thanks for the replies, everyone! Now I regret passing those HC's up
for 50% off, fearing that what I'd heard about the interiors made it
sound like Adams had pulled a Lucas/Star Wars special edition series of "touchups". |
Posted By: Joakim Jahlmar
Date Posted: 19 December 2007 at 2:43am
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Lars – I've got no idea of what Egmont is doing with this material, but then again, I haven't been looking into it, seeing that I have the stuff in English.
------------- L&B, JJ3 a.k.a. The Mad Swede a.k.a. The Mighty Wha-keem Candy-Coated Avatar courtesy of Anthony J Lombardi |
Posted By: Glenn Brown
Date Posted: 19 December 2007 at 5:12am
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Those pages were originally published in Comic Book Artist #3, I believe...if not that specific issue then it was another issue of that magazine focusing on Neal's (underrated, IMO) Marvel work. I'm one of those who can never get enough of Neal's work. After reading of John's German volume, I successfully hunted down said book, even though it was very elusive. There was an eBay seller who was my source...he auctioned several of them, but I'm unsure if he still sells them on there. Huge book, very nice reproduction quality. And it's all original, "unretouched"! |
Posted By: Joakim Jahlmar
Date Posted: 19 December 2007 at 6:45am
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I also enjoy Adams' work immensely. I can remember enjoying the odd Batman and GA/GL stories that happened to cross my path as a kid, as well as a Danish "collected" edition of the Kree-Skrull war. Ironically, I was never really taken by his X-Men back then. Here in Sweden they started a bit into (I believe) the Claremont / JB run (I think the first issue might have been the Mesmero leading into Magneto one) with two US issues per Swedish issue and released in the first half of the 1980s some time. After a while they started running some of the stuff leading up to where they started, I don't remember if they started with the Claremont stuff and then went back further to the Thomas/Adams run afterwards or went via that one directly... BUT I do remember that it didn't at all go down with me as well as the JB stuff... though possibly at the time, I'd possibly put some of that down to the fact that it of course didn't include the same X-Men. ------------- L&B, JJ3 a.k.a. The Mad Swede a.k.a. The Mighty Wha-keem Candy-Coated Avatar courtesy of Anthony J Lombardi |
Posted By: Greg McPhee
Date Posted: 19 December 2007 at 7:27am
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Neal Adams can do no wrong in my book. He is my definitive Batman artist. |
Posted By: David Ferguson
Date Posted: 19 December 2007 at 7:30am
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I'd be like some others here. I would have liked to have seen the original art in an archive format. ------------- |
Posted By: Lars Johansson
Date Posted: 19 December 2007 at 7:33am
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I was never a fan of the Marvel Club format. They had the "Marvel
Mutants" which I guess was Swedish for X-men. I could read the old
Atlantic comics from used book stores, but with the Marvel Club, why
was it a club in the first place? It would have been better to just
name the comics normally. Compared to Atlantic, it was a overrrated
compilation in sloppier colors than the bright Atlantic comics. Byrne's
marvel's Universe Hulk was good, but with the usual pages with
unnecessary comments (!) like "on page XX shit starts to happen". And
of course, the title was not Hulk, although big in bright letters, it
was as I told the clerk as the tiny kid I was "I want a Marvel
Universe", and she responds after thououghly looking "we don't have it"
about five times. ------------- |
Posted By: Joakim Jahlmar
Date Posted: 19 December 2007 at 7:33am
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I'd say that just about the only thing wrong he can do is not doing more than he does... I think there are so many things I'd like to see done by him. And those X-Men pencil pages I mentioned didn't exactly not have me wish to see what he'd have made of the full thing... (not that I blame him for sticking to his principles). My definitive Batman guy as well... ------------- L&B, JJ3 a.k.a. The Mad Swede a.k.a. The Mighty Wha-keem Candy-Coated Avatar courtesy of Anthony J Lombardi |
Posted By: David Ferguson
Date Posted: 19 December 2007 at 7:37am
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There are some Neal Adams pages in the new God Loves, Man Kills HC. They're the ones he'd done before pulling out of the project. ------------- |
Posted By: Joakim Jahlmar
Date Posted: 19 December 2007 at 7:38am
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Not sure I remember what you're referring to right now Lars. I remember that Atlantic did a lot of Spider-Man and Hulk in my younger years, then some other publsiher (Semic?) took over and that as far as I recall introduced X-Men, titled X:en like forever... eventually they also started MegaMarvel which was not really an anthology title, but a heftier (say 150 pages) comic featuring a collection of a story arc or a number of issues with a specific character in each issue. I seem to recall the X-Men title (after having been turned into X-Men from X:en) actually was swallowed into that title eventually, but my memory gets hazy) At any rate I think my shift to reading the material in Englsih had begun by that time. ------------- L&B, JJ3 a.k.a. The Mad Swede a.k.a. The Mighty Wha-keem Candy-Coated Avatar courtesy of Anthony J Lombardi |
Posted By: Joakim Jahlmar
Date Posted: 19 December 2007 at 7:39am
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I know, David, I mentioned them earlier, and they really got me started... Just looking at them made my mouth water... ------------- L&B, JJ3 a.k.a. The Mad Swede a.k.a. The Mighty Wha-keem Candy-Coated Avatar courtesy of Anthony J Lombardi |
Posted By: Lars Johansson
Date Posted: 19 December 2007 at 7:54am
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But Neal Adams Batman was published in the 70's, during some periods in
B&W. It was probably like the German b&w then. I didn't really catch on. They
had problems marketing the Batman comics. Sometimes it was Laderlappen,
Laderlappen and Robin, and later Batman with Laderlappen and Robin at
the same time. Once, actually twice, he was icnorprated into Superman
which made both books decline. The way they treated Batman here is sad.
Except for the cool ad campaign with the little kid reading a book and
the bat signal outside. (Edited part of the text when i read it, I noticed it hade come out wrong) ------------- |
Posted By: David Ferguson
Date Posted: 19 December 2007 at 8:04am
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I know, David, I mentioned them earlier, and they really got me started... Just looking at them made my mouth water...
****** Oops I missed that. I particularly liked his Angel (who was cut from the released version). ------------- |
Posted By: Günther Seydlitz
Date Posted: 19 December 2007 at 10:00am
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Posted By: Glenn Greenberg
Date Posted: 19 December 2007 at 12:42pm
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<<<the new God Loves, Man Kills HC>>>
How's the repro quality in that HC, David? I was thinking of getting it, but it was shrinkwrapped, so I couldn't see how Brent Anderson's art and the coloring looked. Last time they reprinted it, in comic book form, I was less than impressed. ------------- Glenn Greenberg |
Posted By: Matthew Hansel
Date Posted: 19 December 2007 at 2:21pm
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I need to get me one of those "GERMAN" Neal Adams books. I speak/read German a wee-bit, so I could actually kinda/sorta read it, but to see the work in B/W would be a real treat and learning experience. MPH ------------- "Never confuse motion with action." Ernest Hemingway |
Posted By: Joakim Jahlmar
Date Posted: 19 December 2007 at 4:31pm
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Glenn – without having read the whole thing yet, I can say that my initial browsing seems satisfying (to me at least). I'd say it isn't the glossiest of the paper types that I've seen Marvel use, but still on the glossy side of things. I could add though, that I at the very least think that the printing does Anderson's art the same kind of justice as the Astro City TPBs, which I enjoy very much myself. Sorry if I'm ending up more confusing than helpful, but I get credit for trying though, right? ;) ------------- L&B, JJ3 a.k.a. The Mad Swede a.k.a. The Mighty Wha-keem Candy-Coated Avatar courtesy of Anthony J Lombardi |
Posted By: Jason Czeskleba
Date Posted: 19 December 2007 at 7:30pm
| FWIW, the unused Adams pages for God Loves, Man Kills also appear in the Adams X-Men Visionaries book. |
Posted By: JohnByrne4
Date Posted: 19 December 2007 at 8:18pm
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…to see the work in B/W would be a real treat and learning experience.
•• It is that, Matthew! One of the things that I have been pleased to note, as I have gotten older and my artwork has steadily improved, is that I don't look at Neal's stuff in quite the same way I used to. Y'know. No more of that HUGE CRUSHING WEIGHT that wants to SQUEEZE THE LIFE OUT OF ME because, goddammitt, I will NEVER be that good. But -- I'm also not as bad as I used to be. So I can look at Neal's stuff now and, a lot of the time, actually not start weeping! |
Posted By: John Angelo
Date Posted: 19 December 2007 at 8:36pm
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I don't know if they're the complete NA Batman, but Titan Books did a series
of b&w reprints. They're softbound and standard comic-sized pages with about and about 5 volumes in the series. Also available in English. They're a great collection to admire Adams's work in b&w. I can check my set to see how many if you're interested. Here's the cover to one of them I Googled:  ------------- http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=154 - My Heroscape Fan Art |
Posted By: Joakim Jahlmar
Date Posted: 20 December 2007 at 4:42am
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JB – did you ever see those six pencil pages Adams did for the God Loves, Man Kills (in print or the actual art)? And if so how did it make you feel to see Adams, whom if I've understood it correctly you consider the ultimate X-Men artist, drawing Wolverine in the costume you designed? Just curious. But it seems like there may have been a nice moment for you there. ------------- L&B, JJ3 a.k.a. The Mad Swede a.k.a. The Mighty Wha-keem Candy-Coated Avatar courtesy of Anthony J Lombardi |
Posted By: Sam Karns
Date Posted: 23 December 2007 at 11:38am
| I would love to see a scan by scan comparison to see the difference. Can anyone do this? |
Posted By: Gerry Turnbull
Date Posted: 23 December 2007 at 11:46am
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i have all of those Titan books.They are the bees knees ------------- |
Posted By: Gerry Turnbull
Date Posted: 23 December 2007 at 12:16pm
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heres a couple of comparisons.i got the first Neal Adams hardcover, i didnt buy the others
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Posted By: Gerry Turnbull
Date Posted: 23 December 2007 at 12:16pm
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Posted By: Gerry Turnbull
Date Posted: 23 December 2007 at 12:17pm
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Posted By: Gerry Turnbull
Date Posted: 23 December 2007 at 12:18pm
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Posted By: Gerry Turnbull
Date Posted: 23 December 2007 at 12:18pm
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Posted By: Gerry Turnbull
Date Posted: 23 December 2007 at 12:20pm
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Posted By: Kurt Anderson
Date Posted: 23 December 2007 at 1:22pm
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Wish I had comparison pages of the Kubert Tarzan pages and their Dark Horse Archives counterparts. Nothing but clean lines and crips colors.
|
Posted By: Kevin Sharp
Date Posted: 23 December 2007 at 2:59pm
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Gerry, Thanks for posting those. I expected that I might prefer the original coloring, but I didn't think it would be by such a wide margin! The new versions look too "pop art", which is fine for some books - but not this version of Batman. |
Posted By: Al Cook
Date Posted: 23 December 2007 at 3:34pm
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Not only is the new colouring awful, but in some places Adams has actually
been redrawn! Why?!?! Arrrrgh! ------------- |
Posted By: Robert Bradley
Date Posted: 23 December 2007 at 5:02pm
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I don't mind 'color reconstruction' like we see in the Archives and Masterworks, but I'd prefer not to see art redrawn/touched up and coloring changed. Still, it is Neal Adams art, and it's right pretty.... ------------- |
Posted By: Jason Czeskleba
Date Posted: 23 December 2007 at 10:24pm
| Boy, I'd heard he had made some subtle alterations to the art, but I didn't realize he'd actually done so much redrawing. That's a bit too revisionist for me... especially things like lengthening Batman's ears in the older Brave and Bold stories. |
Posted By: Thomas Moudry
Date Posted: 24 December 2007 at 12:23am
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The recoloring doesn't bother me. The redrawing is...jarring, to say the least. ------------- |
Posted By: Sam Karns
Date Posted: 24 December 2007 at 1:02am
| Thank you for sharing, Gerry. |
Posted By: Troy Nunis
Date Posted: 24 December 2007 at 4:25am
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hmmm . . i love the new colours, not sure how to take the redrawing -- i might actually look into getting these. ------------- I'm told that I love semantics, this is true -- depending on what you mean by love. |
Posted By: Flavio Sapha
Date Posted: 24 December 2007 at 7:02am
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I think the new colors are waaay distracting. Then again, they´re consistent with the look Adams imprinted on his own Continuity Comics. The doctoring of Batman´s ears and so on is beneath him, though. Defeats the purpose of buying these things, that is, to see the Adams-Batman´s evolution, eh? |
Posted By: Andy Mokler
Date Posted: 24 December 2007 at 7:28am
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Neal Adams' heyday was just a little before my time so he's always more of a historical figure than one of my guys, kind of like Kirby and Kubert among others. I've enjoyed looking back on his work and held it in high esteem. As an artist, that second page is somewhat encouraging. There are many artists that make you feel that proverbial weight that JB described upthread and it's nice to know that even the so-called gods of the medium have trouble with certain poses. Obviously, NA didn't like the way he had originally drawn the page, so much so that he almost completely re-drew the Batman figure. Even in the re-draw though, it doesn't look like he nailed it. Adams' art always seems so precise and correct that it's almost surprising to see NA struggle with the perspective on that Batman page. The pose, face and foot were all changed and still don't have the fluidity that so much of his other works does. Speaking of the colors, I actually like the new stuff. |
Posted By: JohnByrne4
Date Posted: 24 December 2007 at 7:33am
| The recoloring and redrawing is a tad too Lucasian for me. |
Posted By: Andrew Hess
Date Posted: 24 December 2007 at 10:47am
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The recoloring I'm okay with; in my mind, changing the color from the cheap color printed on cheap paper to more modern coloring on expensive paper makes sense. (If it was being printed on newsprint I would not want it recolored.) But added to it the fact that it has been redrawn and re-lettered? Too much. Which calls in to question the recoloring, too. ------------- |
Posted By: JohnByrne4
Date Posted: 24 December 2007 at 11:23am
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Just noticed Neal redrew Batman's head on the Hellgramite splash, but didn't
correct the odd tangent between his pointing finger and the knuckle of his other hand. |
Posted By: Michael Penn
Date Posted: 24 December 2007 at 11:42am
| I would love to give Neal Adams my money by buying his un-doctored work. Shoot! |
Posted By: Ted Pugliese
Date Posted: 24 December 2007 at 1:55pm
The Batman by Neal Adams HCs also reprint this, my very first Batman comic, from 1975, and I still have it! ------------- |
Posted By: Ted Pugliese
Date Posted: 24 December 2007 at 1:56pm
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My mom used this comic for the pattern to make me my Robin costume.
------------- |
Posted By: Marc Baptiste
Date Posted: 24 December 2007 at 3:00pm
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I never noticed the redrawing... ugh. I forced myself to put up with the "shiny" recoloring, but I REALLY don't like redrawing in reprints.
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Posted By: Gerry Turnbull
Date Posted: 24 December 2007 at 4:28pm
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these Adams issues are classics in every sense.Why would he want to change them so much?
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Posted By: Gerry Turnbull
Date Posted: 24 December 2007 at 4:29pm
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Posted By: Gerry Turnbull
Date Posted: 24 December 2007 at 4:30pm
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Posted By: Gerry Turnbull
Date Posted: 24 December 2007 at 4:31pm
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Posted By: Glenn Brown
Date Posted: 24 December 2007 at 4:38pm
| That overbite is more than a little disturbing. |
Posted By: Marc Baptiste
Date Posted: 24 December 2007 at 4:48pm
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That last redraw comparison is just sad.
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Posted By: Gerry Turnbull
Date Posted: 24 December 2007 at 5:05pm
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im depressed.at least ive still the originals to enjoy.
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Posted By: Gerry Turnbull
Date Posted: 24 December 2007 at 5:07pm
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positively the last one
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Posted By: JohnByrne4
Date Posted: 24 December 2007 at 5:34pm
| …sigh… |
Posted By: Jason Fliegel
Date Posted: 24 December 2007 at 6:40pm
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The Batman by Neal Adams HCs also reprint this [Batman: Stacked Cards, a Power Records record-and-comic combo], my very first Batman comic, from 1975, and I still have it! **** Ted, my very first Batman comic was the other Power Records set Neal Adams did -- Robin Meets Man-Bat! I didn't realize until last year that these weren't reprints of contemporary Batman comics, but stories that were written specifically for the record sets. Boy, those sets sure were great, weren't they? ------------- |
Posted By: Andrew Hess
Date Posted: 24 December 2007 at 6:45pm
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wow, some of those re-draws are completely unnecessary. (. . . and I'm sure it could be argued that NONE of them are necessary . . .) ------------- |
Posted By: Andy Mokler
Date Posted: 24 December 2007 at 9:53pm
| Dare I suggest that NA's old stuff was better? That last comparison of the Superman/Jimmy panels certainly lends credence to the idea. |
Posted By: Jason Fliegel
Date Posted: 25 December 2007 at 12:25am
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The redraws look just fine to me (although the originals do too). But I don't think it's fair to call the redraws Adams's "new stuff," as he was just touching the panels up with relatively minor alterations, not re-composing the pages from scratch. I assume 21st Century Neal Adams would do those pages completely differently from 1970s Neal Adams, not mostly the same with minor differences. ------------- |
Posted By: Troy Nunis
Date Posted: 25 December 2007 at 5:07am
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in some cases it seems Mr. Adams has redrawn the details within the previously existing outline - and things still don't fit right. in other instances where he's started more from scratch and clearly drawn a whole new head, things look much better. ------------- I'm told that I love semantics, this is true -- depending on what you mean by love. |
Posted By: JohnByrne4
Date Posted: 25 December 2007 at 7:32am
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I don't think it's fair to call the redraws Adams's "new stuff," as he was just
touching the panels up with relatively minor alterations, not re-composing the pages from scratch. •• Whether you like it or hate it or land somewhere in the middle, when characters end up with completely different faces, that's "new stuff". It doesn't even take side-by-side comparisons to see that Neal's current version of Superman, to pick one, is a different "model" from the older version. |
Posted By: Ted Pugliese
Date Posted: 25 December 2007 at 8:51am
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Yes they were, Jason. Yes they were... ...sigh... ------------- |
Posted By: Flavio Sapha
Date Posted: 25 December 2007 at 8:56am
| Just don't tell me Adams pulled this in the GL/GA HC too...? |
Posted By: Andy Mokler
Date Posted: 25 December 2007 at 10:12am
|
Something that NA's always been deserving of credit for is/was his ability to draw the characters how they should look. His earlier versions of Superman are just too darned good in most cases. In this particular comparion though, I wonder why he chose to go from Superman standing tall and looking "super" to leaning forward to flex his ab's? I realize that some things just have to be accepted in comics, big muscles being one of them, but in this case I really think NA went from right to wrong. |
Posted By: Jason Fliegel
Date Posted: 25 December 2007 at 1:16pm
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Whether you like it or hate it or land somewhere in the middle, when *** I see your point, but what I was trying to say is that these pages don't (I assume) represent the way Neal would draw those pages today if he were starting from scratch. They're a strange hybrid between his "old stuff" and his "new stuff," in some sense neither fish nor fowl. ------------- |
Posted By: John Peter Britton
Date Posted: 25 December 2007 at 3:07pm
| I had those comics when they first came out and i like what Neal Adams has done with them now they look great. |
Posted By: Glenn Brown
Date Posted: 25 December 2007 at 6:05pm
| I don't recall there being any redrawing in the GL/GA hardcover. In fact, the reason I didn't buy it was that I was underwhelmed by the print quality. My set of Baxter reprints looked every bit as good to me, although the larger size of the collected edition is a plus. |
Posted By: Brian Hunt
Date Posted: 25 December 2007 at 8:51pm
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I think that redrawing and recoloring is considered OK if the majority of the audience is expected to be new to the material. If you grew up reading the issues in question you probably don't want the changes. I could understand updating the coloring because the current process is so much better, but a lot of the redraws are not improvements. ------------- |
Posted By: Flavio Sapha
Date Posted: 26 December 2007 at 7:55am
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I don't recall there being any redrawing in the GL/GA hardcover +++ I´ll sleep better, now, thanks. I agree, the Baxter reprints were great. I did get the HC, but I confess I have yet to spend some quality time with it. |
Posted By: Peter Svensson
Date Posted: 26 December 2007 at 1:55pm
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He did some art touch-ups in the Deadman collection, inking the first issue over his pencils (rather than who originally inked it.) It's his vanity project, and like many artists he's never satisfied. Also, only the first chunk of the first volume is as garishly recolored. DC didn't pay enough to cover "remastering" the entire first volume. |
Posted By: Jason Czeskleba
Date Posted: 27 December 2007 at 11:14pm
| The Lucas analogy is sadly on point here. I took a look at the Brave and Bold Showcase at my library today, and saw that it features the redrawn/reinked versions of the Adams stories. That is really sad. It's one thing to put redrawn versions in a special edition that is advertised as such, but the Showcases are supposed to be archival editions. So it seems the redrawn versions are now the "official" versions which will be used in reprints henceforth. |
Posted By: Flavio Sapha
Date Posted: 27 December 2007 at 11:24pm
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Unbelievable! I was just gonna buy the Showcase...
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Posted By: Francesco Vanagolli
Date Posted: 28 December 2007 at 2:16am
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I have the Italian edition of the b&w books. That's my Batman! I'd be glad to buy the new edition, so I would have all the stories, but they're so expensive... ------------- |
Posted By: Al Cook
Date Posted: 28 December 2007 at 8:21am
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"It's his vanity project, and like many artists he's never satisfied."
I totally understand this mindset. What I don't get is those who keep going back trying to get it right. (Adams, George Lucas, etc.) What any artist produces at any period is of that period -- it is a reflection of their skill, experience and mindset of the time. Good artists -- ones who are driven to constantly improve and do better -- can't wait to get on to the next project so that they can outdo what they've done before. I think that going back is, by its very nature, death to this drive. "I don't need to do better next time 'cause I can just go back and fix this one"... ------------- |
Posted By: Aric Shapiro
Date Posted: 28 December 2007 at 8:25am
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The redraws of Superman drove me insane, so much so, that I found the book unreadable. In one page he had Superman with totally different hairstyle than another non redone page right next to it. I do not favor touch ups on classics. ------------- |
Posted By: Flavio Sapha
Date Posted: 28 December 2007 at 8:25am
| Retracted. |
Posted By: JohnByrne4
Date Posted: 28 December 2007 at 9:07am
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That's too close to mind-reading.
Whatever the end result, I think we must assume Neal redrew this stuff because he wanted to make it better. Agree or disagree, but don't read minds! |