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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133457
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Posted: 28 August 2006 at 12:03pm | IP Logged | 1
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I would point to the increasing cumbersomeness of Iron Man's armor as yet one more thing that underscores the lack of sophistication in both the audience and the people producing the books. Iron Man was born as a big, bulky character, but he was quickly slimmed down, and all the devices he was imagined to need were seen as being somehow incorporated into his sleek, form-fitting armor. If he needed a gizmo, it popped out. He didn't need a special suit for special purposes, or lots of crackerjack stuck all over the armor. Of course, there will be those who will say that the newer versions of the armor are "more realistic" -- but how far off the mark is a statement like that! Some time about 25 years back, fans and pros alike began confusing which parts contain the "realism" and which parts are "realistic". Peter Parker having money worries is realism. Iron Man's armor being lumpy and bumpy --- that belongs in POPULAR SCIENCE, not a superhero comic.
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Greg Kirkman Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 May 2006 Location: United States Posts: 15775
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Posted: 28 August 2006 at 12:16pm | IP Logged | 2
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Probably the last decent Iron Man suit was Bob Layton's red-and-gold variant, introduced shortly after the red-and-silver version.
My personal favorites are the original Tales of Suspense # 39 version (as lovingly rendered by Don Heck) and, of course, the classic red-and-gold.
I find it interesting that the original design was so bulky and "realistic". Certainly it fits in well with the desperate circumstances in which it was created by Stark and Yinsen, but Stan and Jack and Don could have gone the sleek and slick route right after that first story. Instead, we saw a gold version of the original suit, and it took a while to progress to Ditko's original red-and-gold.
Man, Iron Man used to be a great character. Is anyone else mad at how screwed up he's been in the past decade or three?
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Jeff Lommel Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 July 2006 Location: United States Posts: 1039
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Posted: 28 August 2006 at 12:34pm | IP Logged | 3
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Man, Iron Man used to be a great character. Is anyone else mad at how screwed up he's been in the past decade or three?
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I'm not all that attached to Iron Man, Greg, having never read much of any Avengers (or related solo characters). But I can relate to what you're saying, and the answer is, no, not mad anymore. I've moved beyond caring what Marvel does to the characters I used to love and follow religously. They've gone so far away from what I liked about them, I'm just...done with them. Unless or until some change of drastic proportion takes place to return these characters to what they are supposed to be, I'll keep on "not caring". At least we have back issues and these wonderful comissions to keep us going. In my case, I'm going to finish reading the whole FF run up to 1990 (I'm up to issue 70 now), then start on the Avengers Essentials from the beginning. That should take a while!
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John Bodin Byrne Robotics Member
Purveyor of Rare Items
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 3911
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Posted: 28 August 2006 at 12:35pm | IP Logged | 4
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Quick Q for JB: How did Nefaria's cape attachment work -- specifically, how did the rope hold the cape in place? It's easy to see how something like this works for characters like Captain Marvel (SHAZAM!), but with Nefaria's rope running across his chest and under his arm, I can't figure out the attachment/fastening/retention methodology, especially since the cape ALSO has a collar. The attachment method seems similar to what Power Girl uses these days, but she doesn't have a collar to account for, and I can't see how the rope/single attachement point method would allow for a collar, functionally.
Lots of starch, perhaps?
???
Serious question, BTW -- I'm pondering a Marvel Legends custom or possibly a statue of the good count.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133457
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Posted: 28 August 2006 at 12:39pm | IP Logged | 5
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The cape attachment is very simple. The chord
forms a complete loop, around his neck and under
his arm. The cape then passes thru the loop,
between the Count and the chord. The collar is a
separate piece, attached to the top of the cape.
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Greg Kirkman Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 May 2006 Location: United States Posts: 15775
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Posted: 28 August 2006 at 12:41pm | IP Logged | 6
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But I can relate to what you're saying, and the answer is, no, not mad anymore. I've moved beyond caring what Marvel does to the characters I used to love and follow religously. They've gone so far away from what I liked about them, I'm just...done with them. Unless or until some change of drastic proportion takes place to return these characters to what they are supposed to be, I'll keep on "not caring". At least we have back issues and these wonderful comissions to keep us going.
++++++++++++++++
Yeah, I've pretty much reached that point. Guys like Spider-Man and such are pretty much dead to me, now.
But the back issues...the sweet, sweet back issues....yeah, I've been going after a ton of old stuff, lately.
Still, it's hard to ignore the current status of these characters. As has been said before, it's like being divorced, then watching from afar as your ex's life falls apart completely.
Edited by Greg Kirkman on 28 August 2006 at 12:41pm
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Jeff Lommel Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 July 2006 Location: United States Posts: 1039
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Posted: 28 August 2006 at 12:52pm | IP Logged | 7
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Greg, sorry, but I've read your posts here and elsewhere about Spider-Man, and I don't think you've reached the point that I have, not yet anyway! I still go off on tangents about what I'd like him to be again, but I don't get worked up anymore, just accept and ignore.
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Jason Fulton Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 3938
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Posted: 28 August 2006 at 12:57pm | IP Logged | 8
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Did you miss Greg's 800 page fanifesto?
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Greg Kirkman Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 May 2006 Location: United States Posts: 15775
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Posted: 28 August 2006 at 12:59pm | IP Logged | 9
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The "manifesto" was very therapeutic. I feel oddly peaceful, and....disconnected from the current state of things. For now.
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Jeff Lommel Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 July 2006 Location: United States Posts: 1039
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Posted: 28 August 2006 at 1:26pm | IP Logged | 10
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Jason...yes, I saw it, that's what I'm referring to when I say I don't think he's reached the "stop caring" phase that I have!
edit: oh and Greg, you'll feel much better when you just let go, maybe you're right and your dissertation was good therapy and you'll be free!
Edited by Jeff Lommel on 28 August 2006 at 1:28pm
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Brian Hunt Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5178
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Posted: 28 August 2006 at 1:30pm | IP Logged | 11
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This commission piece really leaves me with a warm and fuzzy feeling that makes me feel like I’m in the fifth grade all over again. I love Count Nefaria, even though I’ve never read the issues of the Avengers that he appeared in. I first saw him via his entry in the Handbook Of The Marvel Universe and I thought that he was the coolest looking character I’d ever seen! I didn’t even know who John Byrne was, but I knew I loved the way he had drawn that character. I wouldn’t have even known where to find those Avengers issues to enjoy. It’s funny how things come full circle. I’m going to have to find them now!
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John Bodin Byrne Robotics Member
Purveyor of Rare Items
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 3911
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Posted: 28 August 2006 at 1:50pm | IP Logged | 12
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John Byrne wrote:
The cape attachment is very simple. The chord forms a complete loop, around his neck and under his arm. The cape then passes thru the loop, between the Count and the chord. The collar is a separate piece, attached to the top of the cape. |
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Fascinating -- with a single-point attachment scheme, I would have assumed that the chord passes UNDER the cape (between the Count and the cape). Looking closely at your latest commission piece now, though, I can see how you have depicted the chord, and it makes a lot more sense. Very cool. Thanks for the response, JB!
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