Mjolnir is magical. So is Dr. Fate's helmet. But I'd bet that if Dr. Fate threw his helmet at Superman, he'd be able to block it.

Yes, Mjolnir is a very powerful weapon, but it is still a physical object. When Thor throws the hammer, people get hurt by it because it's a big ol' hammer being thrown at high speed. It's just that Superman can react at high speeds with great strength. That's what he does. He's Superman.

Right. Plus let's consider that the Hulk is just as vulnerable to magic as
Superman. Does the Hulk ever go down immediately whenever he gets hit
by the hammer? They would have pretty short fights if that were the case!

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How is Hulk just as vulnerable, Superman gets hit with the hammer he goes down simple as that. Thor's hammer and Dr Fate's helmet are not the same, they serve different purposes.

Kevin Pierce wrote: Superman gets hit with the hammer he goes down simple as that.

Which is exactly what happened in JLA/Avengers. He got hit, he went down. In ONE single instance during the course of their fight, Superman managed to block Thor's blow, surprised him, and momentarily got the upper hand.

Why is that so unfathomable?

Which is exactly what happened in JLA/Avengers. He got hit, he went down. In ONE single instance during the course of their fight, Superman managed to block Thor's blow, surprised him, and momentarily got the upper hand. Why is that so unfathomable?

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Thor said no one could block his hammer in all nine kingdoms or something like that. Makes no sense that Superman whose weakness is magic should be able to block it.

Kevin Pierce wrote: Makes no sense that Superman whose weakness is magic should be able to block it.

Superman's weakness isn't magic. It's just that magic works on Superman just like it does on anyone else. If Doctor Strange cast a sleeping spell on the JLA, Superman would fall asleep just as would Batman and the Flash. He isn't immune to magic, but nor is he especially weak. Said sleeping spell wouldn't be extraeffective on Superman.

But Superman is not specially weak against magic. As was stated above, Hulk is vulnerable to magic as well. Doctor Strange could cast a sleeping spell on the Hulk, and it would work. Thor's hammer doesn't instantly KO the Hulk. And Superman is about as strong as the Hulk. (I won't open up that can of worms.)

Now, Thor's hammer is magic in that it returns to him when he throws it. It can also do all sorts of cosmicy things, and control the weather. But none of those make it impossible to dodge or block. It's not "The Mighty Mjolnir That Never Misses Ever Because of Magic!"  The reason why most people can't block it is because they don't have incredibly fast reflexes, or sufficient strength to block the hammer because Thor throws it really really hard, and really really fast. Superman is fast enough and strong enough to block it. At least as he is portrayed currently. John's Superman wouldn't be that capable.

Wow. I feel real geeky. Geek Geek Geek Geek Geek.

Ok, my second ever post.

I've read this debate before and if you go by established continuty, Kurt Busiek got it wrong.

Thor's hammer is a magical striking WEAPON that has been shown to hit with a mystical force of its own that seems to be greater then Thor's own strength.

Roger Stern during his Avengers run had a scene where the Avenegers are doing a practise battle and someone accidentally blasts Thor's hand which causes him to drop Mjolnir towards the She Hulk. She quickly grabs Captain America's shield and braces for impact but Thor's hammer still knocks her on her ass. She even comments on how powerful an impact it must have been to knock her down when she uses Cap's shield to protect herself.

Tom Defalco wrote a Thor story where a bunch of bad guys were piling on Captain America and they were super-powered (trolls maybe, I can't recall) and Cap's only hope is to pick up Thor's hammer which is on the ground next to him under the dogpile. Cap does, swings Mjolnir, and the force of Mjolnir instantly repells all the baddies away.

A much older Thor issue (from my childhood, so the details of who wrote it/what issue number, etc. are gone from my memory) has Loki in Asgard using mjlonir to batter Thor into unconsciousness. Loki clearly is not as strong as Thor or anywhere near Thor's stength level.

These 3 examples are from different time periods and all are in continuity, and I'm sure a longtime Thor fan could site many more examples, and they clearly show that mjolnir hits with a mystical force all of its own.

Superman should have been K.O.ed. He should have lost his invulnerabilty and felt the magical impact moreso then say the vastly stronger Incredible Hulk (I will open that can of worms) because the Hulk's level of invulnerability wouldn't fade due to a magical impact.

Ray Brady wrote: I'm baffled as to why this scene has elicited so much controversy.

Because people disagree about how it works.

Kurt Busiek and you think that Thor's hammer has no more chance of hurting Superman than a sledge hammer does of hurting Superman.

John Byrne and I think that Thor's hammer has no more chance of hurting Superman than a sledge hammer does of hurting Arnold Schwartzenegger.

When the difference of opinion extends even to the professionals involved, there's going to be controversy. It shouldn't be all that baffling.

Anyone got Stan Lee's e-mail address? If anyone can settle this, it's The Man!

Peter Svensson got it right.

Kurt Busiek got it right, in that story.

John Byrne definetely gets it right every time.

Superman is as vulnerable to magic as anyone else. Magic is not Kryptonite, he doesn't lose his powers and instantly becomes a weakling! If he is carrying a building on his back and a magic dart hits him on the leg, he will feel pain but he won't drop the building because his powers failed!

Thor's hammer has been blocked before. By "Superman", that is Count Nefaria. In an almost exact situation. Written by Shooter (Marvel EiC at the time) and drawn by Byrne. If you think these guys got it wrong....

Superman, after all, is not capable of lifting or stopping Thor's hammer just because he is strong enough (certainly a lot stronger than the Hulk and please don't use the madder=>stronger cliche, I will tell you Superman can absord Hulk's radioactivity ala Rampage and render him useless.... ), he is also "worthy".

The question is why he couldn't lift in the final issue of JLA/Avengers. Is this some new spell?

In the case of the trolls, who is to say that Captain America hadn't activated some of other powers of the hammer. That thing open energy rifts and what have you.

In the case of Loki, I could batter Evander Holyfield into unconsciousness with a hammer. Damn, who couldn't? You don't have to be as strong as someone to KO them with a hammer!

NOTE: This is a reply to the original post in this thread.  Thanks.

Like any character in comics, Superman's relationship with magic varies over time.  On balance, however, I'd say you are right: It is the strength of the magic, not the magic itself, that must be accounted for.  Superman has, of course, taken shots of magic that have felled the entire League -- JLA Primeval and JLA Seven Caskets readily come to mind.  And has survived magic attacks that would surely kill any "normal" person -- Dominus' power blasts, IDCAP's magic arrows and spells, Captain Marvel's "SHAZAM" blasts, Blaze's hellfire and spells, the Demon's hellfire, the new Bizarro's punches, Cythonna's ice and transmutation effects, etc., etc.

Thus, I say it's like this: The bulk of continuity shows that Superman is no more and no less vulnerable to magic than ANY person with comparable levels of power, resiliency, invulnerability and strength of will.

How's that work?  John?  Others?

_Frank Robert