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Topic: The Real Reasons for Marvel Comics’ woes Locked Post Reply | Post New Topic
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Norman Hardy
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Joined: 02 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 189
Posted: 28 May 2017 at 3:25pm | IP Logged | 1  

I would think the biggest problem is the exclusion of anyone without a lot of disposable income.  When talking about huge crossovers, and having to buy upwards to 25 comics just to complete one storyline, at $4-5 a pop, you're excluding a large group of people that just can't justify that expense.  I'm sure there are tons of people who would like to be able to, but they just can't.  I'm one of those people.  I let Marvel and DC go back during Secret Wars and Convergence respectively.  I just didn't care anymore.

Does Marvel actually make a profit with all of the titles they put out every month?  I suppose I could Google it and look it up.  But it's hard to believe that with the sheer volume of titles they put out, a good amount with names attached to them that aren't recognizable, that they could be turning a profit on them.
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Rick Whiting
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Joined: 22 April 2004
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Posted: 28 May 2017 at 9:20pm | IP Logged | 2  

The article failed to mention a few other reasons for Marvel's falling sales.

The books are constantly being aimed at a narrow audience of aging teen and adult readers instead of aiming their superhero line at all ages.

They are altering characters (usually via retcons) to the point where they loose all of the elements that made them interesting and popular. This pisses off old readers and doesn't attract new readers. The type of changes that I am talking about are changing the established sexuality of characters,aging characters (by having them get married and having kids or by having teenage characters become adults),and turning heroic characters who were against killing into either approving or participating in the killing of bad guys.

Telling stories that should have never been told, like Wolverine's origin or showing what Doom's scarred face looks like unmasked.

The final and most harmful thing that Marvel has done to their comics is to have the comics and characters mimic/resemble the movie and TV versions of the characters. By doing this, they have basically restricted the comics to being restrained creatively to Hollywood rules. So what we mostly end up with is no secret ID's, bland and generic looking Hollywood costumes,characters personalities and backgrounds being based off of their movie versions,and story lines that rehash the plots of the TV series and films.
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Mike Norris
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Joined: 16 April 2004
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Posted: 28 May 2017 at 10:02pm | IP Logged | 3  

Some of the movie versions are closer to the originals than the comics right now! 

Edited by Mike Norris on 28 May 2017 at 10:03pm
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Rick Whiting
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Joined: 22 April 2004
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Posted: 29 May 2017 at 2:42am | IP Logged | 4  

Some of the movie versions are closer to the originals than the comics right now!

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The operative word is "some". And I would argue that a more accurate statement would be that some aspects of the movie and TV versions of the characters are closer to the original versions of the characters.
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Eric Jansen
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Joined: 27 October 2013
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Posted: 29 May 2017 at 5:28am | IP Logged | 5  

I think two issues are being conflated here--content and format.

Format--Sure, video games might grab more kids today than comics, but comics conceivably are more appealing than "mere" books.  ("Words on paper?  How passe!")  As long as people keep reading, comics still have a potential audience.  People still buy collections of newspaper strips, illustrated Bibles (Go ahead and ask Sergio Cariello how many hundreds of thousands of copies of his ACTION BIBLE have been sold!), Scholastic's BONE collections, etc.  The comic format does not seem to be a drawback in these cases.  (As I've said before, fully 50% or more of the 200 kids I give comics to every Halloween get REALLY excited about them--and the other 50% might just be less expressive about what they like.)

Content--Are people sick of super-heroes (comics' greatest match)?  Apparently not, when Marvel movies (with versions of the heroes that most of us really like) make a billion dollars each time out of the gate!  And the "old" stuff (80's or before) seems to be big sellers in the graphic novel section of book stores--with heroes that were still recognizable.  But does anybody like any "entertainment" that is impenetrable and confusing?

So, we won't really know if comics are "dead" until somebody tries to marry old school content with the format kids (and more) are naturally drawn to--and nobody's really doing that right now.  I tell you, a third company following early 80's/late 70's Marvel's example (Byrne!  Miller!  Simonson!--on the right characters!) could turn everything around.  I'm really surprised that some investors with a few millions dollars haven't really tried this yet, with potentially billions of dollars on the table.  (Cross-Gen was the last really attempt and they did well with FANTASY books--comics' weakest genre!  They failed when they expanded too quickly but also by forcing crossovers and becoming impenetrable--comics' modern woes.)




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Robert Bradley
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Joined: 20 September 2006
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Posted: 29 May 2017 at 9:11am | IP Logged | 6  

The problems are obvious to me.  While there is a market out there (look at how popular super-hero movies are!) the comic book publishers have made a series of moves to choke off their new readership.

There are three things they absolutely would have to fix to make them viable again -

1. Comics are over-priced (in part because they have aimed of the collector's market with higher-quality paper).

2. Comics are hard to find (again, selling mainly at LCS limits your customers.  The only "impulse buys" are by people already looking to buy comics and prospective new readers are not exposed to them like we were when they were in drug stores and convenience stores).

3. Comics are not written for kids (fun, fast-paced stories have been replaced by padded ones written for collected editions with too much adult content to make them appropriate for young children and continuity-dense stories that are difficult to jump in on).

Until the comics companies are willing to address this comics are not going to make any sort of a comeback.  Even if they do, there's no guarantee they would, simply because the powers that be have terribly mismanaged them for the last 30 or so years.

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Mark Waldman
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Joined: 16 August 2006
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Posted: 29 May 2017 at 11:36am | IP Logged | 7  

I think it's been summed up very well. Sad but true, times have changed and people - kids, adults too - don't look at reading as they once did. Nowadays there are apps, video games, movies, TV, social media and a lot of other diversions, so why pick up a comic book? If you couple that with the laziness of Marvel and DC, the lack of originality from many of the "creators" (rebooting characters instead of creating new ones - why are all the top characters from the past? Where is the originality?) and price (go back to newsprint - who can afford comics but adults?), you have it all explained. Kids still love superheroes, they just get their fix in film and on TV. Not a good thing, but perhaps not the worst. I'd say the biggest issue is how reading - at least books - has become out of fashion. The more we advance - via technology - the more we regress. Two cents from an old fogy.
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Brian Hague
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Joined: 14 November 2006
Posts: 8515
Posted: 29 May 2017 at 3:56pm | IP Logged | 8  

Notes from the Marvel Playbook:

Never give the readers what they think they want... Like, say, Captain America in a Captain America comic. 

If you build it, they will come. If you never pay it off, they will stick around forever in blind faith that one day you will. 

Diversify. Someday, you'll need a reason for why it all went wrong. You can always trace it back to this.

Ooohh. Shiny. Shiny is best. Like the Shiny.

Of course it costs more. We're Marvel.

"Paying more for less..?" Impossible. By definition, when you buy Marvel you buy more. Marvel is always more. Your argument is invalid. 

Children never bought comic books. Ever. We were always communicating with that young, free-spirited forty-eight year old inside of them. Hang on, note from the demographics department... fifty-two year old. The young, free-wheeling fifty-two year old inside them. Hang on... fifty-eight year old... 

Here's the next big thing from us: It's going to be like a Robert Ludlum or John LeCarre novel. Intricate. Complicated. Adult. Just like Ludlum or LeCarre. If they wrote themselves out of corners using time-stop bullets, Cosmic Dodecahedrons, and Infinity Mittens.

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Joe Zhang
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Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12857
Posted: 29 May 2017 at 9:17pm | IP Logged | 9  

Kids don't read comics ... us fans are hatched full-grown from shipping crates at comic conventions. 
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John Byrne

Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133457
Posted: 30 May 2017 at 8:25am | IP Logged | 10  

Children never bought comic books. Ever. We were always communicating with that young, free-spirited forty-eight year old inside of them. Hang on, note from the demographics department... fifty-two year old. The young, free-wheeling fifty-two year old inside them. Hang on... fifty-eight year old...

••

Reminds me of a few decades back when the Powers that Were at DC expressed great delight at finding that demographics showed they were attracting older readers. Until, that is, someone pointed out that these were not new readers, just the same ones getting older.

Any kind of business sense should have prompted a reaction of "Oh, no! We have to do something to get the younger readers back!" But instead, it was more like "Well, they're already hooked, then, and they have deeper pockets than kids."

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Greg Woronchak
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Joined: 04 September 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 1631
Posted: 30 May 2017 at 10:46am | IP Logged | 11  

The trick is (and I've been there) is that lots of kids have access to some deep pockets: their parents! (lol)

I've introduced my kids to certain comics (Archies, titles based on popular cartoons, etc) which they've really enjoyed. On the rare occasion we browse at a LCS, they stare blankly at the new releases and ask me where the 'good' comics are!
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Rick Whiting
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Joined: 22 April 2004
Posts: 2216
Posted: 30 May 2017 at 6:13pm | IP Logged | 12  

Reminds me of a few decades back when the Powers that Were at DC expressed great delight at finding that demographics showed they were attracting older readers. Until, that is, someone pointed out that these were not new readers, just the same ones getting older.

Any kind of business sense should have prompted a reaction of "Oh, no! We have to do something to get the younger readers back!" But instead, it was more like "Well, they're already hooked, then, and they have deeper pockets than kids."

_________________________


Fast forward to the present day and the Big 2 are still jumping for joy that their books are appealing mainly to older readers (some teens, but mostly adults) who have been reading Big 2 comics since they were little kids. The only new readers that they seem to want to attract are teens and adults. The problem is that most teens and adults who never read a Big 2 superhero comic book when they were young kids (ages 5 to 12) won't suddenly start reading superhero comics from the Big 2 no matter how mature those books are and no matter how many live action Marvel and DC superhero movies and TV series that they watch and enjoy.
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