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Topic: Star Wars Ep. VIII:The Last Jedi - SPOILERS begin Pg 12 Post Reply | Post New Topic
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Peter Martin
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Posted: 05 January 2018 at 7:33pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Time for me to dig this note out handwritten by George Lucas in which Star Wars was originally Episode 6! (this dates from before production on ESB but after Star Wars)



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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 05 January 2018 at 11:05pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

The whole notion that the series would be about the Skywalker clan only came later, as I understand it. Greg Kirkman and others more versed in the production history than I am can correct me if I am wrong.
+++++++++

It began as The Adventures of Luke Skywalker, with the germ of the prequels being a "young Ben Kenobi" movie. Once Father Vader was established, the prequels were mainly designed to just tell the backstory. By the time he got around to making them, Lucas decided to deliberately parallel the stories of father and son in each trilogy, and eventually rebranded the six-film arc as "The Tragedy of Darth Vader". I don't believe there was a point where it had been determined the overall series (including then-speculative VII-IX sequel trilogy) was supposed to be a generational tale specifically devoted to the Skywalker family.



...oh, hey, guys, how's it going? Anything been happening in STAR WARS land, lately? Don't mind me, really. I'll just be quietly chuckling to myself in the corner.
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 06 January 2018 at 12:09am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Abrams has no choice but to do an over-correction with Episode 9, and who knows how that will turn out.  

——

Abrams doesn’t need to correct anything. But I fear he will give fans what they want and write something safe and derivative, instead of taking chances, like Johnson.
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Conrad Teves
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Posted: 06 January 2018 at 1:05am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Greg>>It began as The Adventures of Luke Skywalker<<

Starkiller!
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Adam Hutchinson
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Posted: 06 January 2018 at 9:58am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

No Abrams will give fans exactly what Lucasfilm and Kathleen Kennedy
approves of. Also, he’s on record as saying that after he read the
script, he wished he was the one directing it (or something to that
effect).

Edited by Adam Hutchinson on 06 January 2018 at 10:01am
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Brian Rhodes
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Posted: 06 January 2018 at 2:49pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply


Except he did bounce back.

After years* of wallowing. It wasn't so much a "bounce" as a little girl and a ghost muppet finally guilting him reluctantly back into "action."


*facetiously specific amount of years removed so the pedantic can perhaps find some other way to miss my point. 



Edited by Brian Rhodes on 07 January 2018 at 12:22am
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Peter Martin
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Posted: 06 January 2018 at 3:19pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Greg>>It began as The Adventures of Luke Skywalker<<

Starkiller!
------------------------------------
It's actually Luke Skywalker in Lucas' original treatment from May 1973. 

Kane and Annikin Starkiller appear in the rough draft from May 1974.

Kane Starkiller becomes Akira Starkiller in the first draft in July 1974.

Luke Starkiller first gets mentioned in a synopsis written in May 1975 for Fox executives and then also makes it into the third draft in August 1975 and the fourth draft in January 1976... and even the shooting script from March 1976.

He only went back to being Luke Sywalker at the very last minute, in late April 1976 (principal photography began in March 1976).

"That I did because I felt a lot of people were confusing him with someone like Charles Manson. It had very unpleasant connotations," said Lucas.

Luke's surname was not mentioned in filming until he busted Leia from her cell, filmed in May 1976.


Edited by Peter Martin on 06 January 2018 at 3:21pm
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 06 January 2018 at 3:43pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

After 30 years of wallowing. It wasn't so much a "bounce" as a little girl and a ghost muppet finally guilting him reluctantly back into "action." 

——

Kylo Ren is in his late 20s, not his mid-50s.
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Adam Hutchinson
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Posted: 06 January 2018 at 3:58pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply


 QUOTE:
After 30 years of wallowing.


Based on the Rashomon-esque flashbacks, I thought that Luke had
only been in exile for five or so years; definitely not the full 30 since
ROTJ since Ben’s not too noticeably younger than he is in the rest of
the movie.
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David Miller
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Posted: 06 January 2018 at 6:25pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

I was watching the 1977 "Making of Star Wars" on Youtube and I liked what Gary Kurtz said about future movies:

 QUOTE:
We are working on story material that will develop into potentially one or more motion pictures that will use the same characters; I like to consider them different adventures than direct sequels.

It's too bad Lucas didn't stick with that approach; subsequent films (not to mentioned "expanded universe" spinoffs) could have been a lot less insular and repetitious.

Although there was also Lucas:

 QUOTE:
Obviously The Empire is still there, Darth Vader is still there, and it's going to also evolve, with new characters coming in, new problems, new worlds.

He was already — in 1977 —retconning the opening crawl.


Edited by David Miller on 06 January 2018 at 6:34pm
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Conrad Teves
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Posted: 06 January 2018 at 7:09pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

>>Kane Starkiller becomes Akira Starkiller in the first draft in July 1974.<<

Thank you, Peter.

I knew GL waffled on a lot of the details, but geez.  Alternate Universe Star Wars.
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David Miller
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Posted: 06 January 2018 at 7:46pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Conrad, you have no idea. The early drafts are so different, Dark Horse was able to produce a separate comic book adaption.
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Conrad Teves
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Posted: 07 January 2018 at 12:31am | IP Logged | 13 post reply

David, thanks!  I'll check that out.
I begin to grasp just how completely "Star Wars was saved in the edit."
GL had a fertile imagination (with some odd limitations like Galactic Standard being English), but it's striking how much his writing process involved iteration and "feeling his way there."
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David Miller
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Posted: 07 January 2018 at 1:17am | IP Logged | 14 post reply

It's funny how Lucas mined those early drafts. Lots of names like Mace and Windu and Deak and Han, and the way the Death Star was originally destroyed by  Wookiees eventually turned into the trench run of the first film and the Ewok battle on Endor in Return of the Jedi.

While Lucas is full of shit as to having it all planned out, a couple bits are almost maddeningly prescient. The minor character who eventually evolved into Luke has a father who was cybernetic, more machine than man. A fallen Jedi knight, who is a different character, ultimately turns away from the Empire. But the way those particular elements ended up combining in later films is practically coincidental.
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Monte Brown
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Posted: 08 January 2018 at 1:48pm | IP Logged | 15 post reply

Warren Scott wrote:
"Kylo Ren told Rey her parents were no one. He told her they should leave the past behind. Remember, all he wants is to rule the galaxy and he suggested Rey join him in doing that. Why should we trust him or assume the film's creators are saying we should leave "Star Wars" past behind?"

Rey said her parents were nobodies.   She was the one to reveal her parentage to the audience.  All Kylo did was press her to say what she's always known.  Ben has never lied to Rey in any of their interactions.  That's what the cave scene was all about; a foreboding of her parentage reveal.  The only person who lied to Rey about her past was her, with her self denial.  

And no matter what happens in Episode IX Rey will not turn out to be Luke's daughter or a Skywalker, in any way shape or form.  Unless her and Ben get married but she won't be a Skywalker by blood.

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Matt Hawes
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Posted: 09 January 2018 at 12:16pm | IP Logged | 16 post reply

I never realized the religious experience that is THE LAST JEDI.

:-O

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Stephen Churay
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Posted: 09 January 2018 at 7:28pm | IP Logged | 17 post reply

Here's a question I pose, pertaining to
THE LAST JEDI. What if the title to
Episode VII, THE FORCE AWAKENS, doesn't
pertain to Rey, but to the Galaxy?
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Matt Hawes
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Posted: 10 January 2018 at 5:54pm | IP Logged | 18 post reply




Why THE LAST JEDI  doesn't suck, according to Harley Morenstein.



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Mark Haslett
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Posted: 11 January 2018 at 4:52pm | IP Logged | 19 post reply

Monte: That's what the cave scene was all about; a foreboding of her parentage reveal.

***

Not getting an answer in the cave was a "foreboding of her parentage reveal"? In what way?
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Mark Haslett
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Posted: 11 January 2018 at 4:56pm | IP Logged | 20 post reply

Stephen: What if the title to
Episode VII, THE FORCE AWAKENS, doesn't
pertain to Rey, but to the Galaxy?

**

But hasn't the Force been hard at work across the Galaxy, binding the universe together, etc.? Snoke has sure been busy using the Dark Side of it for years before Rey shows her abilities. How would the title "The Force Awakens" refer to the Galaxy?
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Adam Hutchinson
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Posted: 12 January 2018 at 1:16pm | IP Logged | 21 post reply

I think he meant “awakening” in people around the galaxy.
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Monte Brown
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Posted: 12 January 2018 at 2:18pm | IP Logged | 22 post reply

Mark Haslett wrote:
"Not getting an answer in the cave was a "foreboding of her parentage reveal"? In what way?"

The cave showed Rey her greatest fear which was that she was alone in the universe.   In the end she has only herself to rely on.  She knew it all along but fooled herself into believing her parents would come back for her.  Ben made her admit it out loud so she could move past it and get on with the rest of her life (presumably with him as his GF).  He did it to try and help her but his execution was a bit off, like Mr D'Arcy when he asked Elizabeth Bennett to marry him.
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Peter Martin
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Posted: 12 January 2018 at 2:53pm | IP Logged | 23 post reply

Just listening to the soundtrack, the music for Canto Bight is a real highlight; shame it was the part of the movie that sagged the most.
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Jason Scott
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Posted: 13 January 2018 at 4:12am | IP Logged | 24 post reply

"It felt more like the first 10 minutes of the Transformers movie where they kill off all the Gen 1 Autobots just to make kids want to buy the new toys."
------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------------


That's the perfect comparison Jozef. It felt exactly like that for me. Kudos!
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Warren Scott
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Posted: 13 January 2018 at 8:25am | IP Logged | 25 post reply

Monte, here's my perspective: the scene with the multiple Reys harkens back to the scene in "Empire" in which Luke fights Darth Vader in the cave and finds his own face beneath the mask. I think that in both scenes Luke and Rey are being "forced" to face their fears. Rey's is that she is alone. That doesn't mean that she is. But Ren may wish to take advantage of that.
Regarding Rey's parents: Perhaps the junk dealers were her adopting parents. Uncle Ben and Aunt Beru were really Luke's parents.
Having said that, I'm not in the camp who feel Rey should be anyone's daughter. The idea of Luke being Vader's son and Leia's brother always seemed a little too coincidental to me.
I was more concerned with those who say the film is saying we should leave Star Wars' past behind.
Now here are Rian Johnson's thoughts on Rey's parents (Make sure you read to the end.):
www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/that-big-last-jedi-reveal-isn't -solved-after-all
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