Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login
Dr. Who MOBILE
Byrne Robotics | Dr. Who << Prev Page of 8 Next >>
Topic: The New Doctor to be Announced July 16th Post Reply | Post New Topic
Author
Message
Matthew Wilkie
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 09 March 2011
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 870
Posted: 17 July 2017 at 1:53am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Everyone saying this is a gimmick must be privy to news about the series struggling which I haven't seen.

***

Ratings are falling in the UK.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Matthew Wilkie
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 09 March 2011
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 870
Posted: 17 July 2017 at 2:04am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Chibnall wrote eight episodes across the first two seasons of Torchwood. IIRC these included some of the strongest of the run - End of Days, Exit Wounds and Fragments spring to mind - however his weakest was Cyberwoman about a female Cyberman. We really should have seen this coming!

Seriously, and on reflection, for me the writing will make or break the next series. If Chibnall gets it right I probably won't care for too long about the gender of the Doctor; however, if they get it wrong and Chibnall engages in self-indulgent excesses akin to Moffat at his extreme, the casting will leave a long shadow as to whether there will ever be another female Doctor.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Craig Bogart
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 18 June 2008
Posts: 361
Posted: 17 July 2017 at 9:10am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

 "...the casting will leave a long shadow as to whether there will ever be another female Doctor."

*****

I'm reminded of Michelle Wolf on the Daily Show, talking about the success of Wonder Woman; she suggested there would really be equality when a female-driven movie could bomb and it wouldn't signal the end of female leads.

"Nobody walked out of Batman V Superman and said "Well, I guess we're done making man movies now.'"
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
John Byrne

Beam Me Up, Scotty!

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 108906
Posted: 17 July 2017 at 9:38am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Perhaps a larger question is What Happens Next Time?

Will this Doctor regenerate into another woman, or will the BBC risk turning her back into a man? And you KNOW it would be a risk. The same people who cheer this change as "diversity" would condemn another switch as sexism.

Of course, they'd have to applaud if it was a BLACK man, or find themselves condemned as racist.

Cynical? Moi?

Back to Top profile | search
 
Adam Hutchinson
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 15 December 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4420
Posted: 17 July 2017 at 10:44am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

This isn't a new idea and it looks like one of the show's co-creators
even suggested a female Doctor back in the mid-80s:
Link

Never watched Broadchurch and I don't think I've seen this actress in
anything before, but, as always, with a new Doctor, I'm cautiously
optimistic and look forward to what's coming.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Adam Hutchinson
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 15 December 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4420
Posted: 17 July 2017 at 12:03pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply


 QUOTE:
Perhaps a larger question is What Happens Next Time?


Maybe The Doctor will regenerate into a Frenchman.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 11488
Posted: 17 July 2017 at 12:14pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

I just realized that if they bring back Bill, they could resume the romantic tension between the Doctor and his companion that they had with 10 and 11.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Craig Bogart
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 18 June 2008
Posts: 361
Posted: 17 July 2017 at 1:11pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

I'd like to see a couple females in a row before reverting back to a male, just to normalize the idea which is obviously sorely needed.  Doc 15 can be a guy, then from then on it could truly be up in the air who it may be after that and maybe it wouldn't be such a world-ending big deal.

Reading these arguments, it's like it's 1966 and someone just spotted a black woman on the bridge of the Enterprise.


Edited by Craig Bogart on 17 July 2017 at 1:13pm
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Joseph Greathouse
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 19 August 2015
Location: United States
Posts: 426
Posted: 17 July 2017 at 1:26pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

This sounds like a neat change and I'm looking forward to it.  I see no reason for it to be a bad thing. Its an existing character who is different every time post regeneration, so there doesn't seem to be an "established" idea that would create any type of limiting factor. 

Will the gimmick draw in new viewers and bring back lapsed viewers?  By itself, I don't think so. But then I have many, many female friends of various aged that are incredibly excited by what I see on Facebook.I don't think a single friend has expressed any displeasure or decided to walk away because of the change. 

I look forward to seeing where this goes.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Bill Collins
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 26 May 2005
Location: England
Posts: 9106
Posted: 17 July 2017 at 1:47pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

I just hope that now they`ve got what they wanted,the PC
brigade stick around for longer than the first ep.

Edited by Bill Collins on 18 July 2017 at 12:11am
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Joe S. Walker
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 486
Posted: 17 July 2017 at 2:02pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

Re What Happens Next Time, my guess is Next Time won't be very far in the future. Three years most likely, and I give it that long because the BBC will be slow to admit failure. In terms of James Bond, this is Doctor Who's answer to George Lazenby.

It doesn't "make sense" at all that the Doctor would turn into a woman. It's long established that he regenerates unwillingly and holds on to his identity to the bitter end.

I think genderswapping any character is a lame, rotten idea - in fact, it's a signal that you haven't got any ideas for that character. The fact that it's been presented as Chris Chibnall's Big Idea says nothing good about his likely performance as showrunner.
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Craig Bogart
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 18 June 2008
Posts: 361
Posted: 17 July 2017 at 2:10pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Patrick Troughton put up a fight, and David Tennant was all whiny in a terrible scene (compare that to Davison's regeneration).  Those are the only "unwilling" regenerations I recall.

And "three years, most likely" has been the shelf life of every Doctor that followed Tom Baker, save for Eccleston (counting seasons, anyway).


Edited by Craig Bogart on 17 July 2017 at 2:12pm
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Joe S. Walker
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 486
Posted: 17 July 2017 at 2:24pm | IP Logged | 13 post reply

Like I said, the BBC aren't going to admit failure if they can help it. It wouldn't surprise me to see Chibnall gone in fairly short order though.
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Sam Houston
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 26 March 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 1566
Posted: 17 July 2017 at 2:58pm | IP Logged | 14 post reply

Female Doctor? Hmm, wouldn't this mean she should now be called Nurse Who?

JUST KIDDING!!
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Emery Calame
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5768
Posted: 17 July 2017 at 4:02pm | IP Logged | 15 post reply

"Reading these arguments, it's like it's 1966 and someone just spotted a black woman on the bridge of the Enterprise."

Okay. You win, I'm a racist or a sexist or whatever for not liking what is obviously a stupid, cynically executed idea at a time when the show is weak for short term audience gains.  I've never seen this type of sensationalist flailing before or learned to dread the consequences of it for the IP stupid enough to do it, and I've never enjoyed a female lead in a sci-fi product before and the last 40 years never happened and this is massive blow for civil rights progress and blah blah blah 

My mind isn't right and Dr Who is for the bien pensant now. Congratulations on your signature victory over my hatey yuck shit. I depart now for the outer darkness chastened and whatever, secretly happy I can no longer hold non-sanctioned opinion on a sic-fi product. 

Bye.
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Brian O'Neill
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 13 November 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 1668
Posted: 17 July 2017 at 4:27pm | IP Logged | 16 post reply

A Boy Named Sue? A Time Lord Named Mary Sue?
Back to Top profile | search
 
Brian O'Neill
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 13 November 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 1668
Posted: 17 July 2017 at 4:28pm | IP Logged | 17 post reply

Is it just me, or does anybody else both get and not get Emery's phrasing?
Back to Top profile | search
 
Craig Bogart
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 18 June 2008
Posts: 361
Posted: 17 July 2017 at 6:18pm | IP Logged | 18 post reply

I think there may be a double meaning to his words.
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Jozef Brandt
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 03 March 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 2293
Posted: 17 July 2017 at 7:51pm | IP Logged | 19 post reply


Emery usually makes the most sense, not sure what that says about me.
Back to Top profile | search
 
David Miller
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 1848
Posted: 17 July 2017 at 9:27pm | IP Logged | 20 post reply

Doctor Who embodies both "change" and "illusion of change."

On one hand, if the audience hates Whittaker, on her own merits or not, we could be back to a white guy in less time than Ben Grimm was restored to the Fantastic Four after Jen Walters took his place. Doctor to Doctor to Doctor/Chris Eccleston to David Tennant to Matt Smith. Illusion of change.

On the other hand, compare a Peter Capaldi episode to a William Hartnell serial. Two mean old white men, yet: Ch-ch-change.

On the evolutionarily inevitable third hand, maybe that the famous children's character Doctor Who was once played by men will be an answer to a trivia question in 2063.

Rupert Murdoch papers have published nude pictures of Whittaker, accompanied by editorials asserting it was done as retaliation for the casting of a female Doctor. Of course there's not a sexist among them.


Edited by David Miller on 17 July 2017 at 9:28pm
Back to Top profile | search | www e-mail
 
Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 10116
Posted: 17 July 2017 at 9:59pm | IP Logged | 21 post reply

Doctor Who has long been my favourite TV show -- for close to 40 years. Women having equal rights to men is something I feel strongly about, but this IS a gimmick.

In a BBC article they quote someone as saying "By casting its first female lead in 2017, Doctor Who gets to be a part of something - something hugely exciting - instead of being left behind".

Yes, but why not make Romana the lead of the show if they feel it needs a woman as a lead? Romana is a TimeLord that the show -- decades ago --established as being just as competent as the Doctor and having achieved more at the Academy on Gallifrey.

We are 12 regenerations in. Had they decided to stick with the 13 limit and retire the Doctor in Romana's favour, I would have been a little sad, but kind of excited at the new direction and held respect for having the balls to stick with the continuity.

Instead, we are going to make a fundamental change to the character that can never be undone. How does the grandfather/daughter relationship with Susan now stand?

We already saw the Master regenerate into Missy, all the while the Rani remained unused. Now we see the Doctor regenerate into a woman, while Romana remains unused. How does this progress anything?

In recent years we have seen the Doctor's central role in the show somewhat diminished into more of a sharing role with the companion. If we make the companion a male, will this greater onus of responsibility be devolved back to the now-female Doctor, or will we see the male companion be taking the upper hand? Will this be progressive?

Will we see Romana and the Rani regenerate into a man?
Back to Top profile | search
 
Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 10116
Posted: 17 July 2017 at 10:06pm | IP Logged | 22 post reply

I would also say, the show has seriously damaged a huge number of things that I would hold sacred about the show anyway.

For example, the Doctor as some kind of mythologically-reknowned hero across the universe, who is unbeatable and omniscient, is not consistent with the character as we knew him for decades.

I would also argue a properly-functioning TARDIS is contrary to a key element of the show, yet they have messed with that.

The sonic screwdriver, however, which I consider totally non-essential to the character or the show, has been ever-present in nu-who, as if they consider it sacred. It just goes to show what I consider to be the core of the show and the character does not seem to tally up with those who have been trusted with the reigns. 
Back to Top profile | search
 
Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 10116
Posted: 17 July 2017 at 10:09pm | IP Logged | 23 post reply

Finally, I would contend that the show has one of the most open-ended formats of all TV shows.

We have an established character who can go anywhere at anytime. The stories you can tell with this character are literally endless.

Armed with this limitless palette, they choose to change one of the few core tenets of the character, using one of the character's unique strengths as a means to unpick one of the very few aspects that have remained constant over the years.
Back to Top profile | search
 
David Miller
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 1848
Posted: 17 July 2017 at 10:19pm | IP Logged | 24 post reply

Being male is a "unique strength" of maybe 80% of characters in fiction. 
Back to Top profile | search | www e-mail
 
James Woodcock
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 21 September 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 4206
Posted: 17 July 2017 at 11:15pm | IP Logged | 25 post reply

The door to this was opened with Missy and how that story concluded is, I think, going to be a large motivation as to why the Doctor has gone this route.

He tried to redeem 'his friend' and failed in that so I would not be surprised to see that as the motivation.

In the context of Doctor Who, this could happen. In the context of James Bond, this should never happen and a new character should be used in a similar themed film.
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 

<< Prev Page of 8 Next >>
  Post Reply | Post New Topic |

Forum Jump

 Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login

You are currently viewing the MOBILE version of the site.
CLICK HERE TO VIEW THE FULL SITE