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Dale Lerette
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 March 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 750
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| Posted: 10 October 2017 at 1:41pm | IP Logged | 1
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As technology continues to replace the work force, more and more people are finding themselves out of work. You don't have to subscribe to conspiracy theories to get a sense that we're building a perfect beast that doesn't include us.
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Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12186
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| Posted: 10 October 2017 at 1:48pm | IP Logged | 2
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As technology continues to replace the work force, more and more people are finding themselves out of work. You don't have to subscribe to conspiracy theories to get a sense that we're building a perfect beast that doesn't include us.
***
It does concern me.
I've even heard of clerical positions becoming redundant.
I saw something about drone delivers of groceries. With driverless cars, are we heading for mass redundancies of shelf-stackers, drivers, etc?
I'm sure cops, nurses, care assistants, midwives and firefighters are safe. Not sure how you can outsource those jobs to technology or apps.
But a lot concerns me.
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Shane Matlock
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 August 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 1760
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| Posted: 10 October 2017 at 11:59pm | IP Logged | 3
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My local power company made a huge blunder by investing in a fledgling company that is based entirely on electrical power through coal and as a result we have some of the highest rates in the state. They ended up firing the chairman of the power company but they should've fired the whole board as far as I'm concerned. Idiots!
Edited by Shane Matlock on 10 October 2017 at 11:59pm
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Bill Collins
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 May 2005
Location: England
Posts: 11250
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| Posted: 11 October 2017 at 8:02am | IP Logged | 4
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I may be too cynical,but i doubt drone deliveries will
take off(Pun intended!) the sheer volume of drones
needed to deliver on Amazon``s scale would make such a
thing dangerous,then there`s weather conditions,fog,wind
etc.
On a related note,i lost my job in the steel industry at
Christmas 2 years ago after 25 years in the job.The Job
Centre were pretty useless,very keen to bung you on zero
hours contract,low paid agency work.I found myself a
decent job working for a major high street store that i
enjoy and feel appreciated in,so jobs are out there if
you are prepared to adapt and embrace change.
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Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12186
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| Posted: 11 October 2017 at 1:44pm | IP Logged | 5
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I agree, Bill. And sometimes a change can be good.
Thinking about this topic, it does seem very odd, in 2017, that we are still digging up coal and oil. Most bizarre.
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Michael Casselman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 January 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 1220
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| Posted: 11 October 2017 at 2:08pm | IP Logged | 6
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'Green' jobs are all well and good, but you have to come up with a technology that reliably and cost-effectively replaces the existing non-green technology. You have to come up with a similar reliable and cost-effective transmission system to get that green power to the masses. My local area has been torn asunder by the prospect of windmills being erected, and being opposed by just-as-green environmental groups concerned about how they will effect the migratory patterns of birds and how tourism my be impacted. These windmills bring no long-term jobs to the area, and may also impact the radar systems of a local military base (which happens to be one of the areas largest employer). The existing grid/power lines aren't able to handle the full load of what the windmill developers claim they'll be generating. Solar? Costs are prohibitive, and while solar might sound good in some southern states, the further north you go and in areas where you'll spend more manpower in shoveling snow off of panels.
Electric cars? Until they can come up with one that can get me out of a snowy ditch with all/4wd, I'll have to pass. We have a very long way to go.
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Michael Sommerville
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 417
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| Posted: 11 October 2017 at 8:35pm | IP Logged | 7
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The cops, nurses, firefighters etc, may seem like safe jobs, but people sometimes forget the do not truly contribute to the tax base. Loss of private sector jobs to technology will affect them.
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Dale Lerette
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 March 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 750
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| Posted: 11 October 2017 at 10:06pm | IP Logged | 8
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Robbie Parry: It does concern me.
I've even heard of clerical positions becoming redundant.
I saw something about drone delivers of groceries. With driverless cars, are we heading for mass redundancies of shelf-stackers, drivers, etc? __________________________
All joshing aside for a moment, it does concern me as well.
Years ago I read a book called The End of Work by Jeremy Rifkin. It was very thought provoking. Many critics said he was sensationalizing the situtation, falsely so in my opinion. And I think one very pretigious Science magazine even placed a very large spread amongst its articles denouncing the work.
One thing I am personally noticing is that as more jobs are replaced by technology, there doesn't seem to be sufficient jobs being created to replace them. Bank tellers being replaced with ATMs is just one example of many. There are some aspects of society/industry that are leaning in the direction of a self-perpetuating technocracy that doesn't even realize it exists.
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Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14812
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| Posted: 11 October 2017 at 10:29pm | IP Logged | 9
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The idea that many jobs will be lost to automation and artificial intelligence is why even some libertarians and conservatives are exploring the concept of universal basic income, something that would be decried as socialism only a few years ago.
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Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12186
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| Posted: 12 October 2017 at 6:06am | IP Logged | 10
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One thing I am personally noticing is that as more jobs are replaced by technology, there doesn't seem to be sufficient jobs being created to replace them.
***
Like I posted earlier, I used to work for HMRC, the UK equivalent of the IRS. We had countless tax offices throughout the country. I did data entry/mailroom duties pertaining to income tax and corporation tax. Tax returns came in via post and I dealt with them.
As time went on, taxpayers uploaded their tax returns digitally. So they didn't need people like me to receive paper copies/input them. And there are very few tax offices left in the UK now.
Lots of banks are closing. I was with Natwest for a while. My local branch closed down. A branch 3 miles away closed down. My only branch is 6 miles away in the city centre, which means a drive or public transport if I want to put a cheque in.
Some petrol stations are self-service, no staff at all (you pay via debit card after filling up, although not sure how that stops people filling up and then driving off without paying).
Lots of apps have or are eroding jobs.
My GP surgery is moving towards a system where you book an appointment with the doctor via an online form/app. Will doctors' receptionists be needed in a few years?
All worrying. We should consider a debate (a debate at least!) about Universal Basic Income.
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Dale Lerette
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 March 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 750
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| Posted: 14 October 2017 at 6:30am | IP Logged | 11
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Robbie, a colleague at work and I were talking about this the other day. Here in Canada we are actually trying it. Universal Basic Income
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Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12186
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| Posted: 14 October 2017 at 6:58am | IP Logged | 12
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I find many critics of UBI come out with clichéd statements like, "No-one will want to work" or "Everyone will just sit at home all day."
A lazy person will be lazy whether you have a system of UBI or not.
It's an incredibly complex situation. I'm not saying it'd actually work, but maybe we need the debate (a debate never hurts!) given the automation in jobs.
Lots of people work unpaid for charities, in their communities, for politicians, etc. If you have a passion for something, you'll do it.
I don't have all the answers about UBI, but some British journalists and think-tanks seem to want to stifle debate. When has a debate ever hurt? We can debate it. We may (and this could well include me) decide it won't work. We may debate it and not proceed. But why are some think-tanks and tabloids so against at least having the debate?
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