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Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12188
Posted: 21 January 2018 at 9:30am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Many, many moons ago, I used to check the following website regularly:


I hadn't checked it probably since 2006/07. I checked it again earlier today. There hasn't been an update since 2015.

I don't know the person who runs the site, but it is clearly a self-indulgent site (not saying that in a pejorative way). He/she used to be very passionate about Kirk returning within the mainstream franchise.

Now and again, I hear some (not many) advocating the return of Kirk. When ENTERPRISE was on the air, a friend of mine said that the series, despite being a prequel, should use its screentime to bring Kirk back. There were others saying that the big-screen exploits should have done it.

I think the time has passed.

Kirk's sacrifice was noble. And if they'd planned a return for the character, I think the time to have done it would have been within 3-5 years, whether that was via TV or film. But GENERATIONS was released 24 years ago. And Shatner is 86 years old. Plus, for better or worse, the franchise has moved beyond TOS, TNG, the original timeline, etc.

It's a bit like (not quite the same) when wrestling fans talk about bringing an old wrestler back, not seeming to be aware that the passage of time is everyone's "opponent". The time to do things sometime is when there's a window of opportunity.

Within the movie universe (I've no idea about comics, books, etc), Kirk died. The actor is 86 years of age. And STAR TREK has moved in a different direction. Kirk isn't coming back. And I think some should try to accept that.
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Bill Collins
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 26 May 2005
Location: England
Posts: 10380
Posted: 21 January 2018 at 11:12am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

The trouble is Robbie,fans don`t want to face
reality.What are they expecting of an 86 year old
Kirk? A doddery cameo like McCoy in the Next Gen
pilot?
I am witnessing a similar thing on various sites
concerning Rush,to all intents and purposes they
retired two years ago,drummer Neil Peart has
Tendonitis and is reluctant to tour,especially with a
young daughter missing him and vice versa,he has also
said,he can drum like Charlie Watts in his 70`s,but
not like Neil Peart.Guitarist Alex Lifeson has
arthritis in his fingers.Yet fans are vainly hoping
for more.What do they expect? 3 men in their 60`s not
able to play to the standard they are renowned for?
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Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12188
Posted: 21 January 2018 at 11:19am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

The names may not mean anything to you but fans keep talking about Sting wrestling Undertaker.

Sting was born in 1959, so will be 59 this year. I don't know the Undertaker's birthdate, but he has to be early-to-mid fifties.

Had they crossed paths in, say, 1992 (when both were under 35), it might have worked. It would have worked. But both would be incapable. And I am not being ageist: both have had many injuries over time, I doubt their bodies could handle a feud and a match. And who'd want to see them risk further injury?

Sometimes, the opportunity has passed! 
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Michael Roberts
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Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12312
Posted: 21 January 2018 at 11:52am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Rather than bringing back Kirk, Id prefer they just ignore GENERATIONS altogether. It adds nothing to STAR TREK, except maybe Demora Sulu and Captain John Harriman. 

Edited by Michael Roberts on 21 January 2018 at 11:53am
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Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 2590
Posted: 21 January 2018 at 1:44pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Actually, I'd rather they brought Star Trek back. J.J. Abrams has his (highly paid for) vision... "Star Trek Discovery" has a different vision (probably, but I don't watch it)... "The Orville" has its own vision that is really close to what I'd like Star Trek to be.

As for Kirk... he's dead. There's nothing I've seen to contradict that... unless you go outside the parameters of the original series (TOS, TAS, TNG, DS9, VOY, and ENT.) And I agree that Shatner couldn't do any Kirk we recognize anymore.

The only alternative that I see is the non-canon one; comics and novels. There were a series of novels by Garfield and Judith Reeves-Stevens, with Shatner's name on them also, that did "The Return." They were adequate, and (seemingly) pretty buried in a fan-fictionesque story... but I enjoyed them, so they were worth MY money.

But considering that "canon" isn't even canon anymore... Rest in Peace, James T. Kirk. There will never be another like you.
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Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12188
Posted: 21 January 2018 at 1:52pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Incidentally, when I first came online (around 2002), I expressed similar sentiments. Some guy's response was something like, "You're a moron, Kirk returned in a novel."

Yeah, because I'm aware of EVERY Trek novel/plot written, eh? Trolls, eh?
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Brian Hague
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 14 November 2006
Posts: 7822
Posted: 21 January 2018 at 4:28pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

The "Shatnerverse" novels featuring Kirk's return in the Next Generation era are out there for those who would prefer that Kirk not have suffered such an anti-climactic end. There are ten novels, written by Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stevens from outlines provided by Shatner. The first nine form trilogies and the tenth (Academy in 2007) was presumably going to begin another, had the series continued past that point. 

On the whole, I find them no worse than the usual fare offered by the novels. Of course, there's a great deal of focus on Kirk's fighting abilities and the romances he has along the way.

Sure, they're not "canon," but I've never understood the passionate need to dismiss those elements that are not. If more Kirk is what you want, here's a place to get that.

That being said, I would not object to Shatner's return to the onscreen franchise in some form or another. There have been rumors of a time-travel story with Shatner as Kirk's grandfather or simply a knowing, unexplained cameo. Maybe Discovery can crossover with TOS during the episode "The Deadly Years..." :-)

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Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12188
Posted: 21 January 2018 at 5:53pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Whether it would have worked or not is a separate discussion, but I think the last window of opportunity for a Kirk return would have been during ENTERPRISE. How they'd have done it, I do not know, but perhaps when that show was on the air (2001-2005), there was still a little bit of nostalgia and the like left for Shatner's Kirk.

He'll always be respected, of course. But ENTERPRISE began airing seven years after GENERATIONS ended. So the movie would still have been fresh in people's minds. So if the franchise had really wanted him back, I absolutely think ENTERPRISE was that "window of opportunity".

As I type this, GENERATIONS is a 24-year-old movie. The old era/timeline is over. And, for better or worse, DISCOVERY is carrying the baton now. So when I do hear occasional suggestions about Shatner's Kirk returning, well I think it's nostalgia.

There are sports stars I would have loved to have seen have one more match or contest, but what one wants (due to nostalgia) and what is practical/realistic are two different things.
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Doug Centers
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Joined: 17 February 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 3380
Posted: 21 January 2018 at 7:13pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

I'm getting a pretty good Kirk fix with STNV, but if we're talking the small screen I would not be opposed to seeing him in animation form with Shatner doing voice acting. Maybe some pre- Generations adventures.
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Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12188
Posted: 21 January 2018 at 7:28pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

Doug, excellent idea!

Why the hell didn't I think of that?

With animation, and Shatner's voice talents, it certainly could be possible, although it may be a pipe dream. Would Paramount be interested?
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Eric Sofer
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Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 2590
Posted: 22 January 2018 at 8:58am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

More poignantly, would it work with Shatner, but without Nimoy, Kelly, and Doohan? Or would it be just confusing?

But it IS certainly a good way to "revive" Captain Kirk!
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Brian Rhodes
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Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2944
Posted: 22 January 2018 at 3:00pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

"I'm getting a pretty good Kirk fix with STNV, but if we're talking the small screen I would not be opposed to seeing him in animation form with Shatner doing voice acting. Maybe some pre-Generations adventures."

The BATMAN VS. TWO-FACE Blu-Ray uses this kind of thing. Finally, Adam West and William Shatner star together. Sure, Batman sounded more like Mayor Adam West than the smooth, deep voice we grew up with. But Shatner, when playing Harvey Dent, kinda pulls it off. They drew him to look like 60's (early 70's/TAS?) Shat. His voice has also changed over the years, but...it was effective.

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Brian Hague
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 14 November 2006
Posts: 7822
Posted: 22 January 2018 at 11:00pm | IP Logged | 13 post reply

That cartoon wasn't perfect, but it did strike a number of good notes, making one wish that this episode had actually been done back in the day. A live-action Two-Face done by the actor who did "The Enemy Within?" Hell, yes.

One aspect I did not care for was the recurring meta-joke of Aunt Harriet, originally included in the show to defuse the supposed homosexual subtext, making a constant stream of "unknowing" gay references throughout. Har. De. Har. Har.

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Brian Rhodes
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2944
Posted: 23 January 2018 at 11:47am | IP Logged | 14 post reply

Yes, for the most part, though, it's played...straight.

And I did think of "The Enemy Within" when Harvey/Two-Face were fighting each other for dominance.


The Lee Merriweather bit was a nice touch, too.
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Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 11117
Posted: 23 January 2018 at 8:04pm | IP Logged | 15 post reply

Sounds... interesting.
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