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Michael Roberts Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 14816
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Posted: 22 February 2018 at 9:16am | IP Logged | 1
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To be fair for just a moment, maybe theres a plot point for why She-Hulk looks like that?
——
Jen has had a bulked-up, savage gray form for the last year. Apparently she’s reverting back to green, but keeping the bulk.
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Shane Matlock Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 August 2012 Location: United States Posts: 1760
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Posted: 22 February 2018 at 9:46am | IP Logged | 2
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At this point the vast majority of comic book readers are aging fanboys and giving them these jumping off points is not in Marvel's best interest. Not sure why they haven't figured that out yet as their sales have gone down with each new "soft boot" they've done over the past decade. Each new number one is diminishing returns from the last one.
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Robbie Parry Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 12186
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Posted: 22 February 2018 at 11:09am | IP Logged | 3
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You took the words right out of my mouth, Shane (so to speak).
I know it's not the same, but imagine if professional wrestling kept "rebooting". Fans would get tired. For all its faults, wrestling just moves on. Does it get everything right? Of course not! But if it makes a mistake, it moves on and does, for the most part, provide entertainment.
But imagine if it had its own version of "rebooting":
Let's start WrestleMania again with a new #1. And if that doesn't work, we'll have WrestleMania #1 again in a short time.
This title run isn't working. Let's strip all the champions of their belts and have another tournament even though the last one was a while back.
Actually, rebooting was a mistake. Return the belts to former champions, revert to the original WrestleMania numbering - and move on.
Hang on, no, that didn't work. Let's - for the 'final' time - start WrestleMania again, strip everyone of the belts and reset the clock for each championship.
There may well be some overlap between wrestling and comic fans. I know the above comparisons aren't that good because wrestling is neither fish nor fowl, but I can imagine wrestling fans would get sick of that.
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Charles Valderrama Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 4721
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Posted: 22 February 2018 at 11:23am | IP Logged | 4
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Imagine if professional wrestling kept "rebooting"?
They kinda do... doing the Brand split (separating/shuffling their rosters)... then merge together at some point; multiple World titles that eventually get "unified"... characters get "repackaged" then go back to their original gimmick (i.e. The Shield). Wrestling fans aren't so different from comic book fans when you think about it.
-C!
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Eric Sofer Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014 Location: United States Posts: 4789
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Posted: 22 February 2018 at 11:24am | IP Logged | 5
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That poster... AAAUUGGHHH!!!
I do not know who that character in the back is, but he makes me think of a Greek character (and obviously not Hercules.) Maybe Apollo? He'd make a pretty interesting character...
I think the Hulk had surgery. That green character STILL doesn't look normal, but that might explain it. If it IS She-Hulk, then I must conclude that she is soon going to have a movie of her own, or make a TV presence - because notwithstanding that mystery character in the rear, every one of those Avengers has a recent movie or TV appearance to their credit. Not that I would mind Jen being on Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. or Luke Cage, but... god, what is it supposed to be? I'm minded to think of the cover of Image's Captain America #1.
Robbie - your experience and analysis are EXACTLY what I'm referring to. How do you keep someone interested in a book if it keeps ending and restarting? How often can they "cry wolf"?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 132338
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Posted: 22 February 2018 at 11:33am | IP Logged | 6
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I have been disturbed over the years to realize there is a layer of fanboys who are interested in female characters only if it seems as if those female characters could HURT them.
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Robbie Parry Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 12186
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Posted: 22 February 2018 at 11:41am | IP Logged | 7
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Charles Valderrama wrote:
They kinda do... doing the Brand split (separating/shuffling their rosters)... then merge together at some point; multiple World titles that eventually get "unified".. |
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You make a valid point, Charles, although I'd say wrestling does it with less frequency. In the last, say, 20 years, it feels like Marvel have had numerous reboots/renumberings, soft or hard. Wrestling may "reboot" in a sense, but it feels less frequent - and usually at a point when it is needed.
It can be unwieldy and silly, e.g. WCW once had a WCW World Title, a United States Title, and a WCW International Heavyweight Championship. That last one seemed redundant and sounded unwieldy, so it was right that it was unified with the WCW World Championship. With wrestling, when they do reboot, it seems to be because needs must.
But I don't feel that about the likes of Marvel. They renumbered in recent months and yet we'll be rebooting and starting all over again. It seems like a gimmick.
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Jason Larouse Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 May 2011 Posts: 515
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Posted: 22 February 2018 at 11:58am | IP Logged | 8
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You took the words right out of my mouth, Shane (so to speak).
I know it's not the same, but imagine if professional wrestling kept "rebooting". Fans would get tired. For all its faults, wrestling just moves on. Does it get everything right? Of course not! But if it makes a mistake, it moves on and does, for the most part, provide entertainment.
But imagine if it had its own version of "rebooting":
Let's start WrestleMania again with a new #1. And if that doesn't work, we'll have WrestleMania #1 again in a short time.
This title run isn't working. Let's strip all the champions of their belts and have another tournament even though the last one was a while back.
Actually, rebooting was a mistake. Return the belts to former champions, revert to the original WrestleMania numbering - and move on.
Hang on, no, that didn't work. Let's - for the 'final' time - start WrestleMania again, strip everyone of the belts and reset the clock for each championship.
There may well be some overlap between wrestling and comic fans. I know the above comparisons aren't that good because wrestling is neither fish nor fowl, but I can imagine wrestling fans would get sick of that.
*****
WCW did a "reboot" in their dying days and it was not received well.
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Rebecca Jansen Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018 Location: Canada Posts: 4557
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Posted: 22 February 2018 at 12:06pm | IP Logged | 9
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I thought that Dr. Strange looked kind of like they'd combined him with The Black Knight.
For quite awhile all the male characters looked to me like that She Hulk, or maybe more like Don Simpson's Megaton Man and the Hulk had to go even further. The more things in general get back to John Buscema/Curt Swan proportions the better, but I know most artists today don't really have access to the quality of instruction some in the past had. A lot of people point to Rob Leifeld as the vanguard of the learned to draw from comics by people who learned to draw from comics etc. etc. (watchers watching watchers watching watchers).
I still don't know why Hidden Years "didn't fit in with the line"... is that like when back they axed all the Hanna-Barbera titles because the guys who live in the office found them embarrassing (as well as the west coast animation connected people couldn't do them 'right')? I've had to work hard to convince some people that comic books that did sell well actually were ended and ones that didn't were continued... they don't believe me, even when i used to have the numbers! Yeah, it's a business... when it suits them as an excuse. Fans turned pro have acted like these things are their personal playthings for quite awhile, to live out their fantasies regardless of anything else. Can they not imagine going under completely yet again even with the tv and movie theater successes, and maybe this time not coming back?
Edited by Rebecca Jansen on 22 February 2018 at 12:08pm
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Robbie Parry Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 12186
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Posted: 22 February 2018 at 12:10pm | IP Logged | 10
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I'd like to discuss more, Jason, but don't want to derail this thread with WCW stuff, so I'd definitely like to read more from you in the wrestling thread (if you want to). :)
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Brian Floyd Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 July 2006 Location: United States Posts: 8365
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Posted: 22 February 2018 at 1:35pm | IP Logged | 11
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Ghost Rider as an Avenger makes even less sense than Wolverine, considering the spirit in the current Ghost Rider is that of a serial killer. Hence my reaction on the previous page.
The positives (going to ignore the other negatives): The proper Captain America costume, Captain Marvel being on the roster, and aside from the arm (why couldn't they restore his arm to normal?) and the beard, I like Thor's new look.
Edited by Brian Floyd on 22 February 2018 at 1:38pm
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Rebecca Jansen Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018 Location: Canada Posts: 4557
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Posted: 22 February 2018 at 2:22pm | IP Logged | 12
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Ghost Rider was in The Champions way back, and he had problems fitting in there too.
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