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Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 2350
Posted: 23 April 2018 at 7:47pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Thomas, we have to agree to disagree. I knew what a Trump presidency would bring; and everything I dreaded, and more, has come to pass.

Career politicians are not all respectable and honorable, absolutely. But some of them are. I have little doubt that Hilary would have been much more than a caretaker president. But she would not have attacked, insulted, and defamed America.

"Trump... is open about his character mostly." I'm not sure that's entirely true, but I can certainly see that what we know of his character makes him deplorable. If you see him as the lesser evil, I am sure you have facts to back that up. Again, I don't know what Clinton would have done; she might have been worse. But I sure would have bet against that.

I'm afraid I missed Michael Moore's speech that praised Donald Trump, or that castigated Hilary Clinton; you might need to cite part of it for me to judge it entirely.

Hilary cheated on the debates? If you saw this, you and I watched VERY different debates, my friend. Yes, debates are worth what you pay for them; but I saw who behaved like a professional and an adult, and who behaved like a semi-intelligent chimpanzee.

And to be sure, we are not speaking of Sanders and most politicians; we're talking about Trump and Clinton. If you saw - or see - a happy future with Trump as president, then I hope like anything that you're right. But past performance seems to indicate nothing positive in our future from him.
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Thomas Woods
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 09 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 976
Posted: 23 April 2018 at 7:56pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

This is a glorified version of Michael Moore's speech,
but probably fits with how it rang true in many ears.

https://youtu.be/wxDRq
euLNag
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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security

Robotmod

Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 32478
Posted: 23 April 2018 at 10:20pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

 Thomas Woods wrote:
Trump has got his own corruption but at least he is 
open about his character mostly.

You couldn't have written that with a straight face.  
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Matt Hawes
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14382
Posted: 23 April 2018 at 10:50pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

That infamous Donald Trump "speech" by Michael Moore was literally taken out of context by many people. Do yourselves a favor and watch the ENTIRE show Moore put on. He was NOT endorsing Trump.

Here is the special from which the speech came:

LINK.




Edited by Matt Hawes on 23 April 2018 at 10:54pm
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Thomas Woods
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 09 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 976
Posted: 23 April 2018 at 10:54pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Matt, I said in the post before

Michael Moore knew what he was talking about in that
famous speech of his before the election. He just
thinks they are mistaken to feel that way.


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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security

Robotmod

Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 32478
Posted: 23 April 2018 at 11:17pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

I was questioning your interpretation of Trump, Thomas, wherein you clearly write that "he is open about his character mostly".

He is absolutely, 100% not "open about his character".  Not even "mostly".  He's denied "grab 'em by the pussy" saying that "women love him".  He's downplayed his extreme dislike of Mexicans by saying that "Trump Tower has the best Taco Salad".  He mocks a disabled reporter but then has this to say in his own defense: "Despite having one of the all-time great memories, I certainly do not remember him."  He has called certain African countries "shitholes" (at the same meeting he also said "Why do we need more Haitians? Take them out.") yet when called on it, denies making any of the statements despite numerous people in the room (including many Republicans) corroborating reports that he did. He blamed "both sides" for Charlottesville, then walked it back to condemnations of Neo Nazis, then reversed again the next day to blaming "both sides" for the actions of a single group that resulted in a murder.  This is a man that uses coded language for a host of minorities including Muslims, Jews, African Americans, Mexicans and (really) anyone who isn't white, yet claims that he's not racist because he's "got friends" who are X.

A few.  Just a few examples of a man who denies, obfuscates or otherwise outright lies about remarks he has actually said which actually point to his character and which have real world implications on the policy he wants to enact. That's hardly a person who is "open about his character mostly".  If you're really open about yourself you don't lie to cover up the bad parts, you don't shift blame for the bad parts of yourself onto other people and you don't deny what you actually say.  Saying what you believe in and standing behind it is being open.  Saying what you really believe then lying to cover up the bad parts ain't being open.


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Mark Haslett
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4457
Posted: 24 April 2018 at 1:51pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Trump's effect as a leader has been destructive to the office of the President and the State Department, where his inept staff literally threw away the books provided by their predecessors so they could wing it.

Then, just ditto this kind of damage through every aspect of government under his authority.

The extent of wrong caused by Field Marshall Bonespur's incoherent leadership will be calculated and recalculated for many years to come.

The idea that "blocking Hillary" somehow makes up for this damage and the additional cost of Trump making corruption a main-stream American value is like being grateful that someone broke your legs and put you in traction because it meant you won't have to risk getting run over crossing the street for awhile.
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Rebecca Jansen
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Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 803
Posted: 25 April 2018 at 12:11pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

I think people failed to learn to discount certain sources of information as of any use be they Limbaugh or Moore types, now people have to learn to work around the guy in the white house for the most part. He's quickly become a big work-around you'll have to learn to ignore in many areas.

The hate-on for Hillary goes way back, not something I've understood completely but saw again and again that it was there. There were a few good reasons to distrust and worry about her strings, but way blown out of proportion and as often exaggerated to lunatic scales. I will maintain she demonstrated actual competence aside from the rest of it all (and in the face of hysterical unblinking conspiracy weavers). The fact remains a thorn that around three million more 'Mericans voted for her too! :^)
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