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Topic: Star Trek: Picard ~ Season 1 SPOILERS begin pg 13 Post Reply | Post New Topic
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Mike Benson
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Joined: 04 January 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 479
Posted: 08 February 2020 at 7:24pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

There is indeed precedent.  Bones “swore” all the time.   “Damn” usually, but to some people that is indeed swearing.  Or is that your point, that the show should conform to your standards?
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Eric Smearman
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Joined: 02 September 2006
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Posted: 08 February 2020 at 11:18pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

A question occurred to me with this episode. Nothing major,
just some random fanboy thoughts:

Rios' EMH rattles off highlights of Picard's career ending
with the fact that he "worked with the great Spock". I'll
assume that in the Prime universe, people who know of Spock
think he's missing or even presumed dead per the events
that drew him into the Kelvin timeline. But what what about
Kirk? Is anyone outside of Starfleet aware of his return
from the Nexus and his helping Picard save Veridian III or
do people still think he died saving the Enterprise-B
100some years ago?
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John Harrison
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Joined: 27 July 2007
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Posted: 09 February 2020 at 4:23am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

The vaping threw me off more than any swearing.

As for Kirk, Picard was always more of a buy the book type who would have
made a log of the events of Generations I would imagine it was reported to the
general public at some point by Starfleet.

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Brian Hague
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Joined: 14 November 2006
Posts: 8515
Posted: 09 February 2020 at 9:59pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Mike Benson wrote, "There is indeed precedent.  Bones “swore” all the time.   “Damn” usually, but to some people that is indeed swearing.  Or is that your point, that the show should conform to your standards?"

McCoy only swore in the movies and mildly at that. It's dishonest to imply he did so "all the time" during the series. There are only two instances of anyone swearing in TOS and you have to stretch the definition to include the second. ("Let's get the hell out of here," and "You can't damn him for his loyalty." That's it.) Even in the films, it is considered anachronistic and in poor taste to swear.

Next Gen did not swear overly much, once again until we get to the movies when it became a cutsie-pie note to strike whenever it seemed funny to do so. "Oh, look, Data's swearing! That's so adorable!" 

But hey, we swear all the time here in the 21st century, so let's bring those well-spoken, well-trained officers of Starfleet down to a level we can relate to! Who the hell did they think they were anyway? We'll show 'em! 


Edited by Brian Hague on 09 February 2020 at 10:03pm
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Brian Hague
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Joined: 14 November 2006
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Posted: 09 February 2020 at 10:07pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

"The fucking line must be fucking drawn here! Here! And not one fucking inch further!"

"He tasks me! He fucking tasks me! And I shall have the fuck out of him! I'll chase him 'round the fucking moons of Nibia, and 'round the fucking Antares Maelstrom, and 'round Perditian's Fucking Flames before I give him up!!" 

"Space. The final fucking frontier...."

Yeah. Those all sound fine to me. Bring it on. More and more. That is exactly what Star Trek should sound like.


Edited by Brian Hague on 09 February 2020 at 10:10pm
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Byron Graham
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Joined: 19 September 2004
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Posted: 10 February 2020 at 9:55am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

I don't support swearing in Star Trek, but Brian's redo of Khan had me laughing.
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Kevin Brown
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Joined: 31 May 2005
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Posted: 11 February 2020 at 9:44am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

The swearing doesn't bother me in the least.

With that said, PICARD is getting better with each episode.
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Tim O Neill
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Joined: 16 April 2004
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Posted: 12 February 2020 at 9:45am | IP Logged | 8 post reply



I agree, Kevin - each episode makes me glad they went in
this direction.

And I think the vaping is used well here. Raffi is
drinking and smoking not to look cool or evoke a fad, but
to indicate addiction and depression. It seems pretty
clear in the context of the show and it gives their
interaction the tragic weight of their past.

And it was great to see Hugh - the whole Borg story is
really a great direction.


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Rob Ocelot
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Joined: 07 December 2008
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Posted: 13 February 2020 at 8:27am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Last weeks episode was kind of middling, IMO   Not terrible by any means but not amazing either.   You are bound to have some 'glue' episodes.   

As one friend of mine remarked, "Ok, it's time to get out of the Shire and get moving", and he's got a point -- we're 3/10 episodes and we just got a ship and into space!!   At the same time I do appreciate when a STAR TREK story is allowed to breathe a bit and not be constrained by the usual factors (one or two part TV episodes, or do-or-die feature films).   I'm content to wait and see where they are going with things at the pace they want to tell it rather than conform to outside pressure.   Seems obvious now we were always going to get at least 20 episodes.

I've been rewatching some select TNG episodes and films lately just to see how things fit in -- some of these I haven't seen in probably 20 years.   Beyond the obvious "Best of Both Worlds", "I, Borg", and "Descent" there's a lot of interesting background info about Picard that takes on new meaning in light of the new series.

We've never seen Picard overtly use his clout and fame within Starfleet to influence Federation politics before.  He threatened to walk away from Starfleet if he didn't get his way and the Federation council called his bluff.   This is in sharp contrast to episodes like "Family" where he's reluctant to embrace the role of the returning hero with the requisite statues and parades.   In "Tapestry" Q taunts the play-it-safe timeline version of Picard who "never got noticed by anyone, ever" and you can see just how much it pains Picard to be a nobody.   Yet, when Picard quit Starfleet (and in the process ruined several careers, including his own) he retreated into a secluded and quiet life similar in many ways to the one Q showed him.   Most notably, the alternate future Picard seen in "All Good Things" became an Ambassador and tried to effect change rather than join the ranks of the increasingly corrupt and idle-handed Admirality that seems to have plauged Starfleet for centuries.

In PICARD we see a man who now has regrets for the past 15 years of his life.   "Tapestry" on the other hand showed us a Picard that didn't regret losing a vital organ if it meant standing up for his friends.   Coming to terms with that dichotomy is the real meat of the new series, IMO.


Edited by Rob Ocelot on 13 February 2020 at 8:30am
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 20 February 2020 at 2:53am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

 Peter Martin wrote:
OK, but does that mean it fits in Star Trek?

I'm sure there are people who in daily conversation 
praise God or question the validity of evolution. 
Should that also be spouted from the mouths of Star 
Fleet officers?

Are we talking about Starfleet officers written for 1960s television or are we talking about actual service men and women?  In other words, do you adhere to a template of television from over 50 years ago to determine how actual service people speak, or do you allow that time and temperance have granted us "permission" to perhaps touch upon (just barely) the notion that people actually swear in real life?  

To your question: Why not.  If it makes for an interesting story, one that touches upon the very things TOS touched upon 50-odd years ago, why would that be off limits? The original dealt with race, religion, poverty, hunger, abandonment, abuse, and a host of other issues guised, as it was, as a kitschy little sci-fi series.  Would it really be an issue if present day Trek dealt with issues that were relevant to us in the here and now and also ::gasp!!:: used the language we now allow to be acceptable?  I think that's exactly what made STAR TREK so relevant.  


 QUOTE:
Furthermore, there's decades worth of precedent of how 
Star Fleet officers and Romulans behave and speak. Is 
it wrong to note that it doesn't fit when continuing 
stories of such characters behave in a jarringly 
different way?

"Decades worth of precedent" based upon puritanical codes of conduct enforced by network television.  I hardly think that a leg to stand upon.  Given the opportunity to allow characters to speak how they would actually speak given their station and line of work (as read in every nonfiction book about great military leaders from Patton to MacAthur to Grant to...you get the picture) I don't think it realistic to adhere to a "moral code of conduct" for network television that said characters couldn't swear as the basis for how Starfleet actually operates.  It's just unrealistic.  

In short, I don't get myself worked into a lather about language that is, quite frankly, used every day by people from all walks of life and certainly used all the time in the military of which Starfleet is a part.  It's just not that big a deal.  


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Matt Reed
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Posted: 20 February 2020 at 3:17am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

As hilarious as Brian's post re: Khan is (and it's funny), that's certainly the extreme.  I'm not calling for every third word in a TREK script to be "fuck" nor would I support that.  But used as people use it every day, especially in a script as a punctuation to emphasize a certain feeling or emotion? Why not.  As it's been used in PICARD it's been sparing at best and, when used, meant to emphasize rather than be gratuitous. Others may have a problem with it based on "decades worth" of precedent, but I have no problem with it. 
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James Woodcock
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Joined: 21 September 2007
Location: United Kingdom
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Posted: 20 February 2020 at 4:27am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

I have a problem with certain swear words in certain
films and TV shows.
Because it clearly is gratuitous in some instances. For
example, the Transformers films - they put in the one F
word that they were allowed to use, just because. It
added absolutely nothing to the scene it was used in.
Swear words can emphasise a point, but they can also
take you out of that point.
Using the F word in Picard takes me out of the point
because it stems from a show that did not use swearing.
Does it also add to the point being made? Possibly.
Certainly the use in last week's episode did not (in my
mind).

I do have an issue in that the US seems to only have the
one swear word in its TV and film vocabulary(by and
large). I would be happier if they were a little more
nuanced in their choice. I mentioned this in a post I
wrote about The Witcher - that seemed to have a greater
vocabulary of swear words and to my ears it actually
sounds more natural, because certainly in the UK we use
a greater variety of swear words, depending on the
situation.

Does America have that variety in daily speech?
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