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Topic: Parliament Strikes Back! Post Reply | Post New Topic
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Marc Baptiste
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Joined: 17 June 2004
Location: United States
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Posted: 03 September 2019 at 4:01pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

A big day in the U.K. today - Parliament seems to have found its spine in dealing with Prime Minister Boris Johnson (BoJo).

I am not a citizen of the U.K., so I might not have understood everything clearly - but, it seems as if Parliament is doing two things:

1) Seizing control of Her Majesty's Government from the Prime Minister and his allies.

2) Attempting to deal a death blow to a No-Deal Brexit - and perhaps, Brexit entirely!

Kudos to the elected representatives of the citizens of the U.K.!

Marc
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Steven Brake
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Joined: 01 January 2016
Posts: 204
Posted: 03 September 2019 at 4:04pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Anarchy In The UK! Someone should do a song with that title.

I'm not sure that BoJo's been routed. My predictions are:

1) He calls a General Election for 14 October.
2) He wins with a decent majority. Possibly even a large one.
3) Jeremy Corbyn refuses so step down.
4) Labour continues to implode.
5) The UK gets a hard Brexit OR the EU, at the 11th hour and 59th minute, tries to offer some big concessions in the hope of keeping us in.
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Marc Baptiste
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Joined: 17 June 2004
Location: United States
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Posted: 03 September 2019 at 4:06pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Steven,

I'll take that wager - yes, Johnson is likely to call a snap election - but no, he does NOT win a majority.

Marc
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Steven Brake
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Joined: 01 January 2016
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Posted: 03 September 2019 at 4:12pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

I'll remember this, Baptiste, and I'll be waiting to collect! :)

BoJo is hopeless, but he's got charisma and he can play the charming buffoon to great effect.

Corbyn is an awful mixture of indecision and zealousness, utterly convinced he's right but offering no leadership, or credible alternative.

Final prediction - we end up with another coalition government comprised of Tories and the Brexit party.
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Marc Baptiste
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Joined: 17 June 2004
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Posted: 03 September 2019 at 4:17pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

OR... you end up with a coalition government comprised of Labour and the Liberal Democrats - possibly without Corbyn as PM.  

Now, how will these two parties that can't agree on what time it is ever agree to a coalition?  They will do so because the enemy of my enemy is my friend -- they will form coalition majority government, just long enough to defeat Boris and Brexit.  How long it lasts after that... probably not long.

Marc
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Andrew Saxon
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Joined: 19 June 2016
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Posted: 03 September 2019 at 4:18pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

The rebel alliance just blew up the Boris Death Star. The problem is, as we know from the Star Wars movies, there is always another Death Star.

As for elections, the Brexit Party are going to take a chunk out of the Tory vote and the Lib Dems are going to do the same with Labour. Result: Hung Parliament. At which point maybe the EU will shake their collective heads and refuse to give the UK any more extensions and we crash out without a deal anyway, in which case all this has been for nothing. (Don't blame me, I voted remain.)
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James Woodcock
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Joined: 21 September 2007
Location: United Kingdom
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Posted: 03 September 2019 at 5:11pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

This is a crazy time for U.K. politics.

Both main parties are going to rip themselves apart during an election campaign - Tories are about to sack 21 rebels, Labour have just as big a split coming with Corbyn - a lot of Labour supporters voted leave.

We are no longer aligned via party. Brexit has become a single issue & it crosses party lines, which is causing all sorts of weird to happen. I never thought I would see the Conservatives considering expelling Ken Clarke. This is as weird as it gets.

The product of decades of telling people that the other is to be feared has truly come home to roost.
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Peter Martin
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Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
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Posted: 03 September 2019 at 8:51pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Strangely, if there is a snap general election, the Brexit party may help to steer crucial votes away from the Tories and hence pave a possible way to prevent Brexit.

I'm not holding my breath though.

Really, the important thing is to avoid the scorched earth of a no-deal Brexit.
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James Woodcock
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Joined: 21 September 2007
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Posted: 03 September 2019 at 11:25pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

My views on Brexit keep changing. Currently, while I am still against it , I think we have to go through with it. To do otherwise would cause unimaginable turmoil.

But the form is now important. There has to be regard that the difference was 4% & thus not go for the scorched earth policy of a no deal. The Backstop plan was deeply flawed, but @ least addressed the issue of what on Earth do we do about the Irish/Northern Ireland border.

Despite what they say, there is no technology to create a frictionless border, even if there were, it would not address people movement across the border. Which means we are stuffed because you cannot put a hard border there. It just ensures trouble if you do.
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Steven Brake
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Joined: 01 January 2016
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Posted: 04 September 2019 at 10:04am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

@Peter:

If it's a General Election rather than a European election, or local election, and given Johnson's hard-Brexit stance, I think that Brexit Party voters will probably return to the Conservative Party (where, presumably, most have come from).

@James:
Yes, we're in the horrible position of implementing a vote that seems like to harm us, or reversing it and essentially admitting that we don't really believe in democracy.
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Adam Schulman
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Joined: 22 July 2017
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Posted: 04 September 2019 at 10:26am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

And here I was hoping George Clinton had gotten the band back together and a new single was out....<sob>...
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Marc Baptiste
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Joined: 17 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3092
Posted: 04 September 2019 at 11:20am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Steven,

As I understand it - and my understanding of the unwritten constitution of the U.K. - the U.K. is, like the United States, NOT a pure democracy.  The U.K. has Parliamentary supremacy and NOTHING about the EU/Brexit vote did one iota to change that fact.

The vote by the people was NOT binding on Parliament - it was what we in the United States would call an advisory vote.  The majority of voters let Parliament know their preference regarding the U.K.'s future in the European Union.  Parliament was ALWAYS free to do what it wanted afterward, under the constitution, regardless of the Brexit vote - and if the British people wanted to having BINDING public votes, they will FIRST have to change the constitution.

Frankly, constitutional MONARCHIES are hardly the world's guiding lights on the virtues of democracy.  So, I don't know why people keep lamenting that in doing its duty, Parliament is somehow destroying democracy in the U.K. - frankly, proroguing Parliament came much close to doing that.

Marc
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