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Dave Kopperman
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 27 December 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2026
Posted: 11 January 2020 at 3:27pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Even if it were somehow intended for the film of Gone With The Wind to be a critique of the "southern manners" on display (which I think it in no was was, but just fer arguin'), the film itself was initially received and viewed wholly at face value as a celebration of that era AND has in fact become a chief part of the mythologizing of it, right along the lines of the Confederate monuments that were being built in the two decades leading up to Margaret Mitchell's novel and the rise of the KKK.  You can view it that way with modern eyes, sure, but it's a view as completely revisionist as the film's relationship with race.

I watched it once, about five years ago.  Lousy film, flat acting, shitty philosophy.  Of course it's the adjusted domestic box office champion of all time.
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Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 2093
Posted: 11 January 2020 at 3:52pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Gone With the Wind is not quite up there with the awful Birth Of A Nation film is it? I've often thought that if I were black in the south how seeing new statues put up of Confederate heroes would be not so different from a Jewish person seeing statues of Nazis... 'lost' seems to a have different meaning for some... lost cause, stars and bars flags... if only it had all gone with the wind. I got into a heated exchange of letters in an sf fanzine based in the south way back about that flag. I didn't reference the horrors of the third reich at all, but I did make a point about putting real people effected by seeing that flag over a thing or a symbol. This was at a time where you could say a lot of whites were just used to seeing that confederate flag around and identifying with it without much real thought (it was on the Dukes Of Hazard car, try picturing a swastika on a volkswagon in a European tv show for ultimate contrast). People were still getting killed by skin color up to the 1960s for crying out loud, followed by sham trials. I don't know, I think that Andrew Johnson should burn forever for undoing almost the entire Civil War to the point where there is still a majority of white people down there that will tell you race had nothing whatsoever to do with the Civil War. John Brown and the abolitionists wanting to prevent new stated from having slavery played no part? And just when you think it has finally died out... here's president Trump; the guy who tweeted out totally fake statistics about black violence and still got votes. Shouldn't even have been close after that one tweet (just happened to run across it on a racist site as you do and thought it a good thing to share such 'knowledge' with his base). >:^(

I'll take the Carol Burnett parody over watching more than a couple minutes of the great MGM film, thanks.


Edited by Rebecca Jansen on 11 January 2020 at 3:55pm
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John Byrne

Imaginary X-Man

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 121621
Posted: 10 June 2020 at 7:06am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Well, well! HBO Max has removed GONE WITH THE WIND from its catalog.
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Phil Southern
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Joined: 17 May 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 185
Posted: 10 June 2020 at 8:58am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

As a longtime southern transplant who has spent 44 out of 47 years living in states which seceded from the Union, my opinions on the matter line up with General Sherman's.  The believers of the "Lost Cause" narrative and the "Celebrate Our History Crowd" are purposefully and willfully ignorant.   

The South's important contributions to the Revolutionary War are so minimally discussed as to be non-existent, with so few markers, statues or celebrations, especially when compared with the time spent on the effective treason of the seven slave states rebelling.  That's a lot of time, money and effort spent on celebrating a 0-1 team that lost the only war they fought in.  

But I'm sadly sure there are folks who love "Triumph of the Will" too.  
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John Byrne

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Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 121621
Posted: 10 June 2020 at 9:27am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

“Temporarily” has snuck into the report.
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Michael Penn
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 11081
Posted: 10 June 2020 at 9:53am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Just read this in the WSJ:


 QUOTE:
In a statement, HBO Max said “Gone With the Wind”
is a “product of its time and depicts some of the ethnic
and racial prejudices that have, unfortunately, been
commonplace in American society.” When the movie returns
to the platform it will be “with a discussion of its
historical context and a denouncement of those very
depictions, but will be presented as it was originally
created, because to do otherwise would be the same as
claiming these prejudices never existed. If we are to
create a more just, equitable and inclusive future, we
must first acknowledge and understand our
history.”
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John Byrne

Imaginary X-Man

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 121621
Posted: 10 June 2020 at 10:19am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Acceptable.
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Brian Miller
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 28 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 27571
Posted: 10 June 2020 at 11:49am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Why can’t Disney do that?
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Jozef Brandt
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 03 March 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 2555
Posted: 13 June 2020 at 2:46pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply


The Br'er Rabbit stories are based on African (Bantu) and Afro-Caribbean folk tales. One of my college professors who was from Trinidad actually had grown up with the stories before coming to the United States and was amazed that his culture had made an impact here. (He cited Splash Mountain as his first exposure to the Disney versions of the characters).



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David Miller
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 2390
Posted: 13 June 2020 at 7:16pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

If Joseph Chandler Harris hadn't tried to write in dialect, his Uncle Remus stories might be more sympathetically remembered.

It would probably technically be desecration, but I wonder if the stories could find a new audience with a contemporary prose translation, as is often done with The Canterbury Tales or Le Morte d'Arthur. The difference would be those works were written in a language that has changed, while Harris's dialect was a specific authorial choice, intentionally contrasted with standard English in the descriptions and dialogue of other characters.

(Google tells me Julius Lester did something similar in the Eighties; the books are all out of print, and I can't find any excerpts online, but a NY Times review says that Lester mostly omitted Uncle Remus and focused on prose retellings of the stories themselves.)
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Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 2093
Posted: 13 June 2020 at 7:24pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

Gladstone reprinted some classic Bre'r Rabbit comics in the late '80s... including one with 'De Tar Baby' where Bre'r Fox and Bre'r Bear make it with black tar in order to trap Bre'r Rabbit. It has button eyes; maybe that seemed racist looking to someone? Whatever was supposed to be bad about Song Of The South I don't know what that is from the few clips and the comics I've seen. I guess they don't show the old Our Gangs on tv like they used to, but they are at least available, even the silents, on DVD. I would buy a two disc Song Of The South for sure like I did Bambi, Lady & The Tramp, Mulan and Lilo & Stitch!
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Joseph Greathouse
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 19 August 2015
Location: United States
Posts: 572
Posted: 14 June 2020 at 4:10pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Its not so much the animated portions that are
recognized as racist, but the live-action portions
demonstrating the happy slaves that are pleased to be
able to do the bidding of their masters.
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