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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132292
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| Posted: 10 April 2020 at 7:08am | IP Logged | 1
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…rethink…•• Implies thinking in the first place.
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Tony Marin
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 August 2018
Posts: 96
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| Posted: 10 April 2020 at 7:37am | IP Logged | 2
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It's so strange, l have so many friends with young kids who are able to run off so much character information about DC and Marvel superheroes that they solely learnt through watching the many cartoons out there now that it shocks even me. They absolutely love these characters. Why wouldn't the companies take advantage of that, and I don't mean those silly all ages comics that look like they're drawn by a 10 year old. A Batman book like the one Alan Davis and Mike Barr did in the mid 80's or a Batman and Robin book like the Black and White Chapter that you did would be the perfect all ages tone. Better than having to see Joker tear his own face off for a stupid storyline.
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Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 4789
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| Posted: 10 April 2020 at 10:15am | IP Logged | 3
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Tony, I would share in a desire to return to basics. But I find a couple of issues...
ITEM: Selfishly, I couldn't afford but four or five titles a month at five to eight bucks a pop. It's just too expensive, and I'd reread my old books than purchase six, and be titillated by books I could not afford. And then comes the big crossovers? Sorry - that's out of my range.
COUNTER-ITEM: Are the online comics sufficiently inexpensive and accessible to support the industry? I'll allow we could transition from comic books to just comics. Is that sufficient?
ITEM: Where do the publishers go back to? There are spots where stories and characters change. But which one is the "point of failure"? What changes would entice readers back to the books more than are buying right now? Not for you and me, but for buyers. Back to... Beta Ray Bill? John Stewart? Wolverine? The Punisher? Green Arrow and Captain America joining their respective teams?
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Craig Earl
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 13 July 2019
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1250
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| Posted: 10 April 2020 at 10:26am | IP Logged | 4
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I hear you Tony. To take it further, I've always thought that certain comics had a place in the school curriculum.
My brother struggled with English Lit when we were kids; then he discovered Tom Sawyer and fell in love with books just through an interest in that character. Imagine how many kids would develop their English skills just by reading about heroes that they would previously only know through cartoons and movies..?
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Tony Marin
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 August 2018
Posts: 96
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| Posted: 10 April 2020 at 5:34pm | IP Logged | 5
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I couldn’t believe the day my cousin’s 8 year old daughter started telling me Wonder Woman’s entire back story in detail, I was just amazed. Eric, I mean a complete return to basic like John’s Man of Steel. It’s easy to see what the iconic versions are of most characters are and that means getting rid of things like Supergirl, the many earth based Green Lanterns and the legion of teenage sidekicks with capes that can suddenly do Batman’s job in Gotham. Just start from scratch on everything. This doesn’t mean you change Clark Kent to look like Harry friggin Potter as they did with that 52 relaunch years ago!
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Craig Earl
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 13 July 2019
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1250
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| Posted: 11 April 2020 at 2:12am | IP Logged | 6
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I can recall being at primary school in the late seventies along with a kid who said that he was biggest Hulk fan around.
He was a fan, but one of the TV Hulk (David Banner and all). He had no clue about the comic or of the character's nuclear-age beginnings.
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James Woodcock
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 7622
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| Posted: 11 April 2020 at 3:19am | IP Logged | 7
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Eric asks:
COUNTER-ITEM: Are the online comics sufficiently
inexpensive and accessible to support the industry? I'll
allow we could transition from comic books to just comics.
Is that sufficient?
---------------------------------------
In the UK, Comixology recently increased their prices by
60%.
Digital comics now cost more than a printed comic.
I kid you not.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132292
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| Posted: 11 April 2020 at 5:38am | IP Logged | 8
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ITEM: Where do the publishers go back to? There are spots where stories and characters change. But which one is the "point of failure"? What changes would entice readers back to the books more than are buying right now? Not for you and me, but for buyers. Back to... Beta Ray Bill? John Stewart? Wolverine? The Punisher? Green Arrow and Captain America joining their respective teams?••• In a nutshell, this is why my RESET “plan” couldn’t really work. To return the books/characters to their “better days” requires a general consensus on what that means. Marvel books, for example, didn’t all fall over at the same time. Some went off the track earlier than others.
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Tony Marin
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 August 2018
Posts: 96
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| Posted: 11 April 2020 at 7:01am | IP Logged | 9
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I just think all these characters are in the same boat as Superman was in 85 , if not, even worse. I’d be happy to see it all reset to year “zero” and move forward from there. The only flaw I can think of is that not everyone is John Byrne or George Perez and it just be what we saw during the New 52.
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James Woodcock
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 7622
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| Posted: 11 April 2020 at 12:22pm | IP Logged | 10
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Doesn’t that way lead to the Ultimate line? Which was not something I
ever want to see again
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Tony Marin
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 August 2018
Posts: 96
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| Posted: 11 April 2020 at 7:52pm | IP Logged | 11
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Pretty much, which is why it depends on getting a good team behind it not a bunch of prima donnas looking at comics as a way to get into Hollywood. Done right you get Man of Steel, done wrong you get The Ultimates.
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Sergio Saavedra
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 13 August 2007
Location: Spain
Posts: 452
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| Posted: 12 April 2020 at 4:15am | IP Logged | 12
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This is my take on this: There should be two lines of comics. 1. This line is targeted basically to teenagers. So, the issues have to be affordable; if the only option is the electronic format, so be it. The line is focused on the main characters of each company (maybe about 70% devoted to their most iconic characters, and 30% to diversity).Each superhero is as unique as possible: no more Kryptonians, no Bat-family, etc. The protagonist is a true hero, a decent person, a role model, and the villains are plain evil. Their superpowers must feel cool, the reader should dream of what it would be like to have those superpowers. The approach is essentially action and adventures, with some touches of science-fiction and some drama or romance now and then, but never trying to sound very deep or sophisticated. The writers must act as professionals, or mercenaries perhaps; they understand that the characters are not theirs and just do their job; not being a fan of the character is a plus. Each issue should be relatively self-reliant (I don’t know if that’sthe term); on the one hand, the reader shouldn’t need to know a lot to understand and enjoy what’s happening, and on the other hand, the story should have an end; even if, exceptionally, there is a story that extends throughout several issues, each issue should have a satisfying ending that wraps up at least some important sub-plots. Also, at the end of each issue or story arc, the status quo must be restored. There may be cameos and very limited crossovers now and again, and only a big crossover event every four of five years. 2. This line is targeted to adults and longtime readers of comic books. It may be something like an Elseworlds line, with more freedom to writers. Perhaps they could publish “graphic novels” instead of monthly or semimonthly issues.
Edited by Sergio Saavedra on 12 April 2020 at 5:23am
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