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Craig Earl
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 13 July 2019
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: 06 April 2024 at 4:29pm | IP Logged | 1
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A few years ago, someone bought me a Marvel encyclopaedia. I remember it including a considerable amount of super-powered characters that I was only vaguely familiar with, and some that were complete unknowns (and I was a card-carrying Marvel Zombie!).
Many of these characters seemed to be either very two-dimensional or, dare I say it, downright stupid.
So, has the Marvel Universe become too bloated with uninteresting, super-powered characters? After all, too many surely reduces the grandeur of the MU as a whole.
Discuss.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 06 April 2024 at 4:40pm | IP Logged | 2
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The basic idea behind OHTMU was to prevent character duplication. It didn’t work.
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Craig Earl
Byrne Robotics Member
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| Posted: 06 April 2024 at 4:52pm | IP Logged | 3
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I remember Marvel's 'Scourge' being used to kill off a few weaker characters a few years back (not sure if that was a deliberate act to thin the herd).
Maybe we need Scourge 2.0...!
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John Byrne
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| Posted: 06 April 2024 at 5:23pm | IP Logged | 4
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Or maybe they should just STOP USING THE BAD CHARACTERS. Of course, the problem there is that every character is SOMEBODY’S favorite. (When I started on Superman I received an angry letter—only one—demanding to know how I could leave out Beppo, the Super Monkey. Didn’t I understand how important he was to the mythology?)
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Craig Earl
Byrne Robotics Member
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| Posted: 06 April 2024 at 5:31pm | IP Logged | 5
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I may be in the minority, but there are so many non-powered characters that I enjoyed seeing (Foggy Nelson, Heather Hudson*, Ben Urich, Jonah Jameson, Wyatt Wingfoot, DA Tower etc). I have no problem with more of them!
It's almost that they seem to be better written because they don't have powers.
(*Heather was way more interesting before getting suped-up!)
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Brian Miller
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| Posted: 06 April 2024 at 5:51pm | IP Logged | 6
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The problem, Craig, is that they’re making all those non-powered
characters and either giving them powers or making them part of the
superhero identity. Mary Jane now has powers and a costumed identity. J
Jonah Jameson now knows Peter Parker is Spider-Man and kinda uses him
in a Superman-Jimmy Olsen manner. It’s all that garbage that needs to be
done away with.
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Craig Earl
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| Posted: 06 April 2024 at 6:23pm | IP Logged | 7
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Yeah, Brian. Fortunately, I haven't been a regular reader for a while (so I missed a lot of what's been mangled over the last 20 years or so).
The whole concept of rare individuals becoming heroes because of the human being behind the powers is what attracted me to the genre in the first place (especially at Marvel, with their flawed hero approach).
It wouldn't have hurt to see some characters just quit the superhero biz after not being able to cut it!
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Rebecca Jansen
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Joined: 12 February 2018
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| Posted: 06 April 2024 at 6:52pm | IP Logged | 8
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Back when there were lots of 'key' death issues in the early-mid '80s I felt like maybe they should get rid of them all and start over, at least ala Showcase #4.
The pilot light for DC was lit with Superman, Batman etc, circa 1938-1945, for Marvel in the '60s with the Fantastic Four, Spider-Man etc. circa 1961-68, DC re-ignited circa 1956-63. What never happened again was another eight year span of new or very revamped characters for those current times. At least not fully, although post-Crisis there were newly recharged Supes, Bats and Wonder Woman, plus changings of the wearer of the name for Flash and Green Lanterns. Marvel got Spider-Man: Chapter One, and Heroes Return, but maybe they should have gone further? What seemed never to happen, including the '70s, was a lot of new characters that got established... a few did like Iron Fist and Firestorm, but more a second tier success, nothing equal to Supes and Bats way back or Spider-Man not as way back but still quite a long time ago. I think it looked like Howard The Duck was going to be the new major thing for awhile there but for whatever reason and without Gerber he fizzled out.
There have been a number of separate lines though; New Universe, Impact, 2099, MC2... aside from New Universe maybe they just didn't go far enough with all new characters? Valiant was also based on pre-existing characters.
Basically though 'good' is what there is enough of an audience for, 'bad' is what doesn't find enough of one. If Sonic The Hedgehog comics have actual readers more power to that. He seems to have his own 'universe' and side characters. Same for Walking Dead. I like what I've read of Miles Morales and the young Ms. Marvel (sometimes with Squirrel Girl), and I liked the DC Superhero Girls in it's first version... but again, along with Spider Gwen, those are not entirely new. Something that would expand the readership and/or cross-over into more of a general public consciousness seems to be something that comes along rarely in any medium. Wendy and Richard Pini worked hard to try to get Elfquest out there with a movie or animated series, but came up short mostly, and I would say that was a creation that really 'had the goods'. The Mask had a hit movie but I don't know that the comics benefited or showed lasting quality. Mutant Turtles? The Tick? Usagi Yojimbo?
I found Bone when I was really not buying any comics so I still think if something really exceptional and new does appear in comic books it will find support and even be heard about by lapsed readers.
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Rebecca Jansen
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| Posted: 06 April 2024 at 6:58pm | IP Logged | 9
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Beppo! Could there ever be enough super pets? And monkeys sell they used to say...
No, I was more a Super Turtle fancier, at least he was somewhere in his own cute cartoon world not needing to seem 'real' ever. In fact I hated when Superman met Captain Carrot & The Zoo Crew (or if Captain Marvel met Hoppy The Marvel Bunny), that's just wrong... didn't like Howard The Duck crossing over with any of the Marvel heroes either. Elfquest might be lucky Marvel didn't take an interest back in the '70s, they'd probably have had to meet Spider-Man somehow.
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Peter Hicks
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| Posted: 06 April 2024 at 9:26pm | IP Logged | 10
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I feel this is where the MCU has arrived at. The fans who lined up to see Iron Man and Captain America are far less interested in Echo or Ms Marvel.
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James Woodcock
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| Posted: 06 April 2024 at 9:39pm | IP Logged | 11
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I am fine with new characters being created/introduced.
I do not like copies of copies of copies.
That there are multiples of seemly every character has diminished my
enjoyment & my interest . How Many Robins are there? It seems every
character has multiple versions - the male/female version, the child version,
the villain version, the zombie version, the Ultraverse version who has
crossed over from a different dimension, the ‘old man Logan’ version, the
1602 version & so on ad infinitum.
It’s not even derivatives either. A character can be reinvented @ the whim
of a writer. Now, granted that has happened on many occasion in the past -
the DC revolution in the silver age, Jim Starlin & Warlock as examples. But it
seems to happen with regularity now.
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John Wickett
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| Posted: 06 April 2024 at 10:04pm | IP Logged | 12
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As fondly as we all seem to remember the Silvera Age, the Bronze Age, or whatever era we grew up reading comics in, there have always been bad comics. Culling the characters won't change that. You might have fewer bad comics featuring a character you don't like, but there will still be plenty of bad comics featuring "good" characters. The solution: Buy what you like, and ignore the rest.
"The problem, Craig, is that they’re making all those non-powered
characters and either giving them powers or making them part of the
superhero identity..."
I agree with you completely, regarding the specific examples you raised. But I think having a strong supporting cast that are an essential part of the ongoing story can be done very well. One of my favorite Superman runs was the Wolfman/Ordway run on Adventures of Superman. The Daily Planet staff were featured very prominently, along with new recurring supporting characters like Professor Hamilton, Jerry White, Gangbuster, and the Kirby characters (Guardian, CADMUS, etc.) The number of characters being featured never diluted the quality of the stories, because Wolfman's writing was good.
Edited by John Wickett on 06 April 2024 at 10:20pm
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